Just to let you know, I started this in April 2017 when Doreen Virtue was newly born again and had said negative things about the Ascended Masters books and decks. I see that The Doreen Virtue/Jesus conversation has flared again, making me want to continue working on this piece to share my take on it…
So, I’ve been coming across some really interesting information and debate in the New Age Spiritual Community concerning Hay House author and angel guru, Doreen Virtue.
(Newer post here about her A-Z List of New Age Practices to Avoid)
In the past few years, as many of you know, Doreen Virtue’s work and she, herself – as a brand and celebrity – have skyrocketed. She kind of cornered the angel market and held the reputation of the Queen of Angel Work for the past 10 years or so.
Personally, I have read some of her books and I own a few of her decks. I even volunteered for her in Salzburg, Austria and in Zurich, Switzerland. I met many beautiful friends and business colleagues through her work and at those events. I’ve found her teaching style to be very easy to follow and, I think, well set up for people who are just starting to work intensively with their intuition and with different entities.
Angel work, too, struck a chord with me. I’ve written about my experiences before and find the energy of the angels – or whatever you want to call them – soothing, calming, and just plain nice. When I call on the angels, I feel protected. When I ask the angels for signs they are with me, I often get something totally funny and totally distinct and totally meaningful to me – something that makes me laugh or feel just a little less alone in the Universe.
Some might argue that angels are portrayed as fearsome beings in the Bible, so I am not sure if what I am working with is truly angelic, but whatever – the energy is, to me, calming and healing. (ha-ha! I might get some kickback for this statement.)
I know that I often felt like an outsider in the angelic community, though – or kind of like a double agent of sorts. You see, many people who follow Doreen prefer to keep things on the lighter side. She recommends being vegan, shunning hair color and chemicals, and doing everything one can to remain in a “high vibration state”; I’ve been working on integrating my spiritual side with my earthly side. I curse and sometimes eat meat. I’m not always the most gentle soul in the room.
I am finding power in anger and expression and being REAL – not just (feeling like, to me) shining beams of rainbow glittery light on people who were pissing me off. When I work with sensitive people, I find more success in gently encouraging people to be more powerful and making some hard decisions, not just focusing on the positive in life, glossing over the uncomfortable things in life and especially in the people around them.
So, I’d been feeling that there was something lacking for me in Doreen Virtue’s teachings (like spiritual bypassing that many have been talking about lately) and I backed away from Doreen Virtue, her work, and her teachings. I had gotten what I needed from her message, and I decided to happily pursue my own path – one that diverged from the one that Doreen Virtue spoke about and embraced.
To me, spirituality is a distinctly personal journey. We all come across teachers and gurus who influence our spiritual path. Some of my own have included Wayne Dwyer, Tool (the band), Robert Anton Wilson, Caroline Myss, Gena Thomashauer, my mom and friends, TV and pop culture, art, Terence McKenna, acid experiences, and the Beatles. No one is right, no one is wrong. Everyone is doing their own thing at their own level, and that’s OK.
I know that I might come across a book, CD, or video that will help me to go to the next level, and I don’t cling to the creator of that work for long-term spiritual guidance. I allow my spirituality to evolve and flow in a natural way – and I know that others evolve and grow and shift as well.
So, back to Doreen Virtue and her recent spiritual evolution that included a baptism and turn toward Jesus-centered Christianity, to which I say, “Even though it isn’t for me, more power to her if it makes her feel more spiritually connected and true to her beliefs.” Doreen has always said she is aligned with Christian beliefs and has referenced those many times in the past. If she is born again, then good for her if it takes her to the next level.
The problem that many people have had with this in relation to a message that she sent out (in both video and audio format) that was quickly removed from the internet…. Basically put, from what I understand, she said that some of her followers had “demonic, dark” energy around them as did some of her former work, including the Archangels and Ascended Masters book and the Ascended Masters deck. She actually advised people to burn their copies of these books and the decks associated with them.
I wish I could find links to what she specifically said (from what I understand, moderators for her pages have been busy scrubbing any mention away), but I know that it had a really profound impact on many of the people in the community that she, herself, had built – many people who felt like outsiders in general society had found a comfortable home within the angel community.
For many of those people – especially those who didn’t necessarily vibe with the Jesus angle – it felt like a mixture of being betrayed by their leader and also being singled out as evil and bad, which stung some of those people to the core.
Aside from that, Doreen’s audience IS (or was) multi- cultural and denouncing gods and goddesses from different faiths or backgrounds kind of burned. Learning about different deities and their characteristics felt like bringing people of all faiths together. Declaiming them seems divisive and totally anti-what-I-thought-her-message-was-about.
And there was some sort of denouncing tarot readings and mediumship, too. Hm. Personally, my love for tarot started long before I ever heard Doreen’s name, volunteered for her, and my CACR™ certification is just one small piece of my tarot background and education. When people talk about their certifications being worthless, they might be purposefully overlooking the experience of the class and the content there – which likely added to their tarot practice.
There are those in the tarot community who love her and those who despise her. And really, as I mentioned before – her path is her own biz.
Apropos biz: Many people think her rebirth to the Christian faith is just a business decision – a way to pander products to a different part of the market. If it is, so be it. I almost laugh when I think about someone “selling out to Christ” – even though I know it is a thing. And I know that born-again Christians are popular now and they do have money to spend. But, as I said before, whatever. This is her thing and she can teach those who are interested in hearing what she has to say.
To sum up my feelings about Doreen Virtue’s Christian Conversion, the only thing that bothers me about it is the fact that she made people who she might have once built up feel bad. While her spirituality is, was, and will be her business, she probably should have given a LOT more thought to her words and message during her transition. She could have found different things to say than words like “denounce”, evil, false gods, etc., and not encouraged her team to scrub conversations or people to burn decks and books. A little bit more gentle and light would have been more appropriate.
That’s just my opinion, though.
Each of us has a different and unique spiritual path to follow – even those who are celebrities or gurus. Doreen Virtue embraced her Christian background and made some very public statements about some of what she used to teach. Ultimately, she has every right to follow her own path, but she could have parted ways with those who didn’t fit with her new beliefs in a more constructive manner.
I’ve written a new blog post here that covers her A-Z List of New Age Practices to Avoid: Disappointed In Doreen Virtue
I feel like you, I liked many things she taught, but I don’t feel aligned with her Christian message she has been giving out lately – although I had not heard about this happening!! Very strange. Glad I read this!
Thank you, Rachel. I feel like strange is a good word for how this unfolded. Ultimately, we can learn from many people – and we don’t have to keep working with/listening to someone when their message doesn’t fit our reality anymore.
Have a fabulous day!!
I tried submitting a response not sure if it was received
Hi Tina,
No, I didn’t receive your response. Did it have links or anything that would have marked it as spam?
Thank you!
Sue, TU!
I am also confused and did research on Michael and their farm move. Then found you.
Didn’t hear about burning books or decks, of which I own many. What she said before was to keep decks in a sacred space, away from negative energy.
Now she is selling things on eBay?
I also read her words where she admonished a former husband for sueing her for spousal support and asking for her retirement fund.
I thought it was strange when she changed her hair color. Now, I find it hard to believe she doesn’t color her hair. Where’s the gray? Henna?
Gee, now married 5x… 1 more and she’ll beat me! However, I am not a millionaire living in Hawaii. I did however follow her for years. I’m not going to burn my cards. They continue to serve me well & with love.
It saddens me that Doreen feels as though she has the right to tell people to go directly against what she has previously taught. Now it feels as though she is grasping at financial straws. Interesting to note, WWLH (Louise Hay) think? Kimberly, Red Wing, MN
Before her clothing had beautiful colors. Her voice was sweet and inspiring. Now she looks more like a grumpy bigot judgmental and narrow minded. She doesn’t make the difference between the new and old testament. Jesus said that love was the most important and to not judge others. But she became agressive and obviously she got trapped in a Christian radical sect. I hope she will get out of it. She obviously didn’t understand Jesus at all. Well those sects are a problem in America. But it’s possible that she was fake before just being commercial and not really believing in what she was selling. She made 100 millions. I hope she gave this month to orphanages and not to this church.
I’d love to see what charities she’s supporting too, Marie!
Thank you for responding!
Sue
Doreen virtue is a hypocrite, fundamentally dishonest, and thrives off the vulnerable and the poor. She should be thoroughly ashamed of herself but with a suspected sociopathic personality, she does not suffer from a crises of conscience.
Far too many people are like that these days. It’s sad.
Thank you for commenting, Majella!
Kind regards,
Sue
I agree. We can learn from many other people out there. I don’t agree with her newfound message and will not be following her or purchasing anymore of her products or literature.
I agree with you. Her spirituality is her own to claim and walk as she so chooses,but It’s not very “christian” behavior to denigrate the people who have loved, supported her work, and brought her great wealth and fame. She is a hypocrital fraud.
I always felt Doreen was right when she said that working with angels helped bring people from all denominations on a spiritual path . This spiritual path can bring us closer to God and Jesus, especially the Holy Spirit who she mentioned often. I tried to write to her but am nit on Facebook and don’t know how else to express my feelings. I remember she stated that the voice of an angel saved her from a carjacking. I don’t know how that could be considered Demonic. I know there’s evil, demons, and all sorts of people And entities who would and could harm us. I am a Catholic, therefore, a Christian, love Jesus, and His message of acceptance, tolerance, and integration. I’ve been listening to Born Again Christians and many who’ve had encounters with Jesus, as Doreen had. These people just give up everything to have a relationship with Jesus alone. I am also a Reiki Master. I feel the energy of Reiki, angels, Jesus, and Mother Mary. I also read and meditate on the Masters who are the White Brotherhood-Jesus, Buddha, Mother Mary, St.Germaine (The Violet Flame.) io love my Jesus-He us my Lord and Savior. Didn’t He give us all these beings along with Heavenly Father, our Creator ( who Doreen also mentions in her guided meditations.). God gave us angelic assistance-it’s in the Bible! Other sacred texts as well. She helped us then confused us. But we ate all in the path so blessings to us all. Thank you for this blog. I still own her cards and her meditations are very helpful fir healing. So let’s thank Doreen Virtue and pray for her too. Why not? We all need help along our way. We are Earth Angels and Lightworkers-we need each other. Peace!
I love this comment, Maria, for so many reasons! We DO need each other – I feel now more than ever! Also, Jesus’s mission and message WAS all about peace, love, and acceptance, and I somehow feel that many people who are so “Jesus oriented” aren’t upholding the very basics of his teachings.
We have to take what we learned from her and the rest of the teachers and ascended masters we work with and use that for the betterment of life and the world around us.
Kind regards and blessings!
Sue
Jesus distinctly said He did not come to Earth to bring peace, but a sword to divide (Matthew 10:34). You would need to study the bible before claiming to know who Jesus is. His main message was of the divine Kingdom as opposed to a fallen world. He spoke about dividing evil from holy. It is not that Jesus’s ultimate goal is not to bring peace on the earth at the end of the this age, but that peace will only be achieved by a conflict between holy and evil. The evil do not believe that God sent Him as the saviour of a fallen mankind. The holy are only made holy via their belief in Christ and in no other way. Its simple and its divisive-that’s the nature of it. Love comes in all forms and one of those forms is through eternal justice. Doreen is now stating these facts because they have only recently dawned on her. She was not a fraud, she believed what she taught when she taught it but now she knows better. People in the new age movement often have a very superficial notion of spirituality (and so do many Christians as well) and she is calling them out on that, because she wants better for them. She also calls out any Christian groups that are not 100% biblical such as the Word of Faith movement. You are right in saying that she has gone on to the next and higher spiritual level. There is no higher level to go to. This is it, and you might one day also find that level and believe in Jesus yourself. On that day you’ll realise that what you were searching for was right under your nose all along. There are some things you can’t sugar-coat, and I agree that Doreen came right out with it all in a very blunt way, but I think she felt an immense guilt for leading so many people astray. It’s not that angels aren’t beautiful and real or that some of what she said wasn’t helpful or true, but it’s this subtlety of truth that is in fact the biggest deception within the new age and other religious movements. Christianity itself has many forms of half-truths and lies that have led many astray. The biggest example is the Catholic church. I don’t believe Doreen meant to deceive people, but she herself was deceived. Great liars never stray far from the truth and there is a devil, an actual entity that hates mankind and wants to deceive him through new age philosophies among many others. This is reality.
Just looked that up, John. Another reason I am not a Christian.
Thanks for giving me one more. I’d prefer the ‘love your neighbor, turn the other cheek’ Jesus than the judgmental, divisive one.
Have a fabulous day.
Sue
Funny when I was in a religion I had what was called a rebirth, which in later years find out it was a shift when I shift and awakened in 2004. Now I am so close to Divinity compared when I was told I had a rebirth . Maybe she never was in awareness but book smart and summited to religion. Everyone is one their path. I will continue to use her cards that has help many people heal
I am sad that she has stopped with the tarot card readings the way she did them. I went through a very difficult time in the past and knowing and receiving support confirming that there were angel signs was very good for me. I have also used her meditations and learned how to think more positive. I felt her weekly if not daily support! I’m missing her. But I will move forward and continue the meditations. Sometimes life is hard and there is such negative energy her angel therapy helped. Perhaps I regarded it as more therapeutic. It was nice I felt supported by her.
Hi Tina,
There are many, many tarot and angel card (and Certified Angel Card Readers) out there – myself included – who might be able to help you with a reading and with connecting to your angels. You can always find support from her community and also people like Kyle Gray and Radleigh Valentine.
Blessings,
Sue
I have felt a lot of dark energy trying to pull individuals from the light. I discounted it and thought it was me. My angels are pure divine fun and loving. They tell me that they need us on earth to keep the love flowing. They mean it too. Doreen virtue has for a year been subtle moving from angel work and I feel anyone getting sucked into a church setting under a name of Jesus centred is false. I know from personal experience. The truth lies in your own set of beliefs.it is right that you don’t worship angels, angel alters etc are a form of idolatry. However, I always found a subtle falseness about her work and that’s my judgement. I feel at this time we have to battle against fear based energies others, the world and our own. Angels are here whether you believe or not. I feel tarot card reading should be done in love. If you do it lovingly and for the light there is nothing wrong in that. Jesus lives in you if you accept him into your life this is true. I witness to this. It’s what you do with love in your life. This is the catch. You don’t worship angels but you do need them for support and help against dark forces to protect and honour love which is you.
Great points. Personally, I’ve also found working with angels to be a happy experience.
It is interesting to see how this evolves.
Kind regards,
Sue
BINGO! I totally agree. People will be falling back to sleep at this time. This is just all the more reason for us to move where our journey takes us.
I agree with you. I will pray for her
Joining in late on the conversation, but I feel you hit the nail on the head. I love my DV book on Ascended Masters and carry it with me everywhere. I have received no indication that anything on my path has changed and will continue to look to this book for guidance from all divinities: gods, goddesses and backgrounds. That is my path and I’m going to stick to it!
YES!!! That is the thing. Each of us has a journey, no matter who our teacher was for a time.
Thank you for your comment!
I agree with all of the above! Christ consciousness is not somehow limited to Christians, and the bible was much amended for political purposes of those who seek to use religion as a means of control. Millions were slaughtered in religious wars over a period of the last thousand years. Those who are conflicted by false concepts like sin, guilt, Hell and damnation and/or the demonetization of cards and readings, would profit greatly from ACIM ; a Course in Miracles and the related teachings provided in : A Journey Beyond Words; its companion guide. Teachings channeled from the master Himself, which clarify much of the confusion. I was guided to a deep and profound sense of peace within from my study of these amazing words.
I agree with so much of what you said, Catherine! We are all connected to Christ Consciousness and trying to sell us a story that we AREN’T is the grand illusion of the last 2000+ years, isn’t it? Time for a new era…
Have a fab day!
Sue
I found that her teachings about angels made me feel not alone and supported. The fact that she is selling her animal ranch is like the final straw to her abandoning her followers.
Yeah! I found that to be really odd. You’d think that someone with her amassed wealth wouldn’t have to sacrifice what seemed to be so important to her…
And I agree with the “not feeling alone” from the angelic teachings. It had the same effect on me.
Thanks for commenting, Tina!
Kind regards,
Sue
This is the last video I watched when she decided to sell the ranch she had supported and asked us to support. It’s not that she moved the animals on, which she says was in their best interest, but that she could have continued supporting animals as a Christian like St. Francis. If she learned the lesson on moving the animals on after rescuing them, she could have stayed on at the ranch and done the best of good for them by learning the lesson. Seems odd to walk away from a sense of direction she claimed to have by taking them in the first place.
Hi there
I don’t know how to create a new passage so I’m just replying here. Probably cell phone limitations.
So this post captures well the feelings of those caught off guard by Doreen. I was at her last in person angel intuitive course. I was hit with the curve ball of her proclaiming this was her first time sharing the information about seeing jesus and turning away from mediumship. At the course she had her cards for sale she had radleigh and Robert doing teachings on their Co authored decks. She just wasnt present for those and she refused to sign any cards. She didn’t make her jesus secret known till the second day. We didn’t learn really anything apart from a niggling feeling we had been dupped. As an empath I’ve already taken a hard path. Losing a role model makes it just that little bit more lonelier.
Hi Eva!
There are soooo many of us out here – don’t feel alone. One thing about Doreen’s classes and teachings that I LOVED was the fact that she created a community.
Reach out if you need. I can tell you where to find more like-minded people!
Kind regards,
Sue
I do think that many people are going to feel lost after this . We need to be strong and find all the like-minded spiritual support that we can . We spent too many centuries being branded and reviled as witches . Working with the Light is never wrong . Namaste xx
Hi Trisha,
I so agree with you! We have to stick together. But, we also have to resist the urge to do “witch hunting” of our own, you know?
Namaste,
Sue
That’s horrible. If her heart wasn’t in it back then she should have not taken your money. What a horrible thing to do to people. I think she is a human on her own journey and having said that she is bound to make mistakes. Unfortunately she took many people along for the ride who needed to believe in something higher than themselves. She had always struck me as someone who made decisions based on emotion rather than a deep knowing. Look at all of her failed marriages. I think going from one extreme to another is a reflection of this change in her. The pendulum has swung too far over and to me it seems like she has gone from a love based mentality to a fear based one. I have many of her books and cards and I took a class with her on Angels and it was in a church. It was a beautiful experience and she was a good speaker. Although I did sense an attachment to represent an image and Therin I can understand now the need to be more authentic as she took that to the extremes as well. As a public figure she has a moral obligation to those who have followed her and believed in her to take them gently towards this new shift she is embracing. I think she is trying to absolve her guilt and maybe feels she is doing right by her previous followers. Again I think she operates on an emotional level (knee jerk) and down the road may find herself backtracking. She saw angels and now she saw Jesus. She is now turning away from angels and towards her experience with her vision of Christ. How is one more valid than the other and who is to say what she saw was truly Christ. She has questioned her judgment in public and doubted her previous beliefs how can you follow someone who is working out their beliefs? The lesson here is follow no one. God is within. She is no more equipped or special than the next human being. She made a good living from her beliefs and well good for her I guess. I think she needs boundaries and work through her journey in a private way. Her going public in the way she has has caused harm and this some might say is worse than what she intended when she set out to share her experiences with angels in the first place. We are all reaching for some kind of understanding as humans on the earth but we don’t know what we don’t know. Be kind, love God (life, others, self) and pray.
How come the angels didn’t tip her off about Jesus a long time ago?
From what I understand, she’s been part of Christianity for a long time. She had just expanded her experience to include other deities. She’s gone back to the “conservative Bible version” of Christianity.
Thats exactly what I have been thinking…why did the angels not tell her about the demons
I was in new age and it is a great deception! Doreen is telling you the truth. Seek Jesus from your heart and He will show you the truth. The angels you contact are demons. The new age teachings are a lie. Only Jesus the Son of God can save your soul from a real hell
Hi Kashena,
I honestly see this in a very different way than you do, as do most of the other people. If you have ever worked with Angels before, you might understand the calming, peaceful energy they bring into your life. Also, as many of the commenters have stated: Why would demons help you to make yourself a better, more kind and gentle version of yourself? Why would they help you make positive changes in your own life and the life of others?
I see judgment and fear to be worse than love and self-improvement.
Just my opinion.
Kind regards,
Sue
Thank you for sharing Sue. I accept all are entitled to their own path but found Doreen’s fear messsages very damaging. I also feel my 12 year old self in her – I was scared of ever trusting myself or being open because the fear I of hell was so scary. I felt perpetually guilty and controlled by fear. When I was old enough to realise this, I still tried to preach because the threat of hell is pretty scary. I suppressed and lived in conflict and shame until I embarked on my spiritual journey and found freedom. I love my angel decks and like you find comfort, peace and feel supported.
Hearing Doreen’s message tapped into my old, limiting and dangerous beliefs and for a few days I became riddled with confusion. As you say why would demons want us to feel safe and connected and grow with compassion? Yet the fear almost took over my own truth in my path again. I’m glad you and others are speaking up on this with love, as her vibe is unhelpful l many. I pray for Doreen and am grateful for her cards. As I think of my child self, controlled by compulsion to share the message and read the bible to my friends, I just want to hug her and tell her she wasn’t heading for hell, she was already in it, from being controlled by fear. I am now open to recieving and use discernment. Doreen it seems does not have permission to use discernment anymore, she will believe the rigidity of however she interprets conservative Christianity and spread the word because if she doesn’t she will believe hell is coming.
Hi Hannah,
Beautiful comment. Thank you so much!
I wish you peace.
Sue
Couldn’t agree more with Kashena. The angels that are spoken of here are in fact demons who deceive and delude people into believing in them to take people away from Salvation that is freely given by the grace of God the Father to those who turn in faith to the cross of Christ Jesus believing that He is the only begotten son of God the father. Isn’t it far better to believe in the Creator of all that is seen and unseen than demons?
Hi Elizabeth,
Honestly, the more I see and hear “Christians” talk about what is good and holy and KNOW how I feel when I work with angels, the more I wonder…
I don’t see it in the way you do, quite honestly.
Have a great day,
Sue
Hi Elizabeth,
I just don’t believe that inclusion, understanding, kindness, and all of the things that people who associate with angels believe is evil.
But thank you for your comment.
Kind regards,
Sue
I’ve come to this conversation late, having only just become aware of Doreen V’s radical shift. I’m shocked. Doreen’s books and cards have been significant in my spiritual journey and for that, I’m grateful to her. Interestingly, while oblivious to her change of direction, I’ve continued to use her angel cards, with positive results. I’ve never connected to her fairies or mermaids or unicorns – never been my thing – but angels have been massively significant in my life. They will continue to be, despite Doreen’s change of direction as they continue to support me and others in my life.
I’m sad about Doreen. My first thought on hearing the news was that she had become unwell. Maybe. Maybe not. What I’m reading about her now seems very extreme, cultish behaviour. Like you, Sue – whatever. Her journey is her own business and maybe she could have been more sensitive to her previous followers. Strangely, now that I have the information, I no longer want to use her cards and will dispose of them. I’ll find another direction too, but it certainly won’t be among the Jesus followers. I was brought up as a Catholic and have had a belly full of hypocrisy. The abuse meted out by the Catholic Church continues so if that’s what you want, you’re welcome to it. Just leave me out.
My journey continues. My best wishes to you, Sue and all of your followers and contributors
Hi Sue, Doreen didn’t denounce Tarot back in April, only the Ascended Masters. And she never used the word ‘denounce’ then or in the infamous Maui TV interview. The thing is, you don’t have to use the word denounce to denounce something. Do watch the video for yourself (https://youtu.be/0e8QYAWgJMo) and you’ll see what I mean. She denounces Tarot, mediumship and any form of predictive reading in this video. She also claims that the reason she hasn’t pulled all the works she no longer believe in is that she feels responsible for Hay House employees, which is funny considering how she claims to only serve God and not Mammon now – surely God would look after those employees too! I think it is very important to separate out the spiritual side of things, which you covered here (yes, it’s her biz) from the actual BIZ side of things where so many have paid hundreds if not thousands of dollars to get certified by her and now find it difficult to do what they planned which is to build a business around those certifications. Kinda difficult now for those who feel their teacher has lost credibility. This obivously makes the certificates feel worth LESS if not entirely worthless. To me they do feel worthless. I could have learned the same subjects just more in-depth without having to pay out of my ass. I did ask Hay House for a refund for the AI course… They declined, first citing Doreen Virtue’s blatant lie (see her latest newsletter or her own FB page) that she has never denounced any of her teachings. I sent the video link to them, letting them know that I felt it was even more embarrassing to be certified by her now that she is a public liar. They then said that it was too late because any refunds had to be made within 60 days of the purchase. HH is a highly immoral organisation, as is DV a highly immoral individual. Do you think it is a coincident that she issued these statements AFTER the 60 days were up for most of the people for this course which they pushed hard back in the spring? Of course not. I let HH know how I feel about it and I hope many others do too. Apropos everything that has happened, I wrote the following on my FB page this morning:
If you, for any reason, are not happy with a service, course or product you have purchased from a business or organisation, you have certain rights. Don’t fall for the pressure from the holier than thou crowd that just because you are spiritual and you bought said item from a ‘spiritual’ business, you have no right other than to be grateful and move on. If you feel let down, write and complain – it’s your God-given right to do so!
Love,
Lisa
I do agree that her courses were WAY overpriced and am sorry that I made the mistake of saying she said “denounced” when she didn’t, but her words had the same effect.
I guess, to me, the classes she taught, when she was into things like fairies, tarot, etc. don’t lose their value because the teacher decided to move in a different direction. I’ve always felt that Radleigh was the “tarot guy” on the team, but he teamed up with Doreen because of her name and audience (and, of course, angels).
Sorry that you feel that you were robbed by HH and DV. 🙁 I totally understand your viewpoint and where you are coming from.
Love,
Sue
Oh, I totally used the word ‘denounced’ myself after watching her Maui TV interview video – that is what she did. I just wouldn’t quote her as saying ‘I denounce…’ The classes she taught, as well as the books she put out there, were all of quite low quality compared to what I have seen on offer by others who charge a lot less to teach… More fool me for going back to her and HH for more… I feel a bit like I was under some kind of spell. Waking up is good. Love, Lisa
I agree about the cost, Lisa! I was SHOCKED to see what the $$ was for the AI course – so I did a lot of the work on my own and with various different resources (yours included) and teachers.
To be clear Sue was referencing the original April video in which she apparently did directly denounce some of her previous work. The interview video and current explanatory video on Doreen’s Youtube channel are “gentler”.
😀 Yep! Thank you!
Is Doreen Virtue truly connected, because if you have had a truly spiritual experience such as a loved one materialising in front of you or a loved one talking to you very clearly from the spirit world, then this experience would blow you away and live with you for the rest of your life. She cannot have had such an experience because if she had then this would have uplifted her for the rest of her life.
How hypocritical then to denounce mediumship. If god gave man the ability to connect the two worlds and bring such joy, then how on earth can that be wrong. I think she casts a large shadow over spiritual practise and people need to question(because it’s imperatively healthy to do so) what she was all about in the first place.
Has she had a nervous breakdown, has self guilt finally caught up with her, has she run before she was outed etc etc. Who knows.
She has mislead a lot of people and I think she needs to be a lot more accountable.
“How hypocritical then to denounce mediumship. If god gave man the ability to connect the two worlds and bring such joy, then how on earth can that be wrong.”
I love this! Especially connecting the two world to bring joy.
We have to just allow her to be in her place and us in ours. I also think she has to be accountable and really think about what she says before she says it. Otherwise, her path is hers.
Eve, I have to agree with you on everything you said in your response about Doreen. I listened to Doreen’s video explaining her conversion and feel she is acting very “spacey,” and doesn’t appear to be grounded, i.e., like she is floating in an altered state. This concerns me because I wonder if she is taking any medication, which may contribute to the appearance of this altered state. Something certainly has shifted in her voice and in her mannerisms, but I wish her well.
You asked “has she had a nervous breakdown?” I think the answer is much simpler than that, she met and married a man called Michael, who is obviously a devout Christian and ever since she has been with him, her videos have been more and more about Christianity.
I think Michael has had a huge impact and influence in her life, almost to the point that he is the controlling factor in whatever decisions she makes!
Very disappointing to see this happen to a woman I always thought was someone who “empowered” others!
Perhaps I’m way off base here, but I do think Michael is a Svengali type person, who has taken over Doreen Virtue’s life and is the one behind the conversion to Christianity and the subsequent decisions she has made.
Some may see this as a good thing, but personally, I am disappointed at anything which disempowers a woman’s thoughts, actions and decisions.
I totally agree with you. I saw Doreen Virtue a few years ago at a Hay House conference with her husband and I felt his energy was not good at all. I got a bad feeling about him. I think he probably has influenced her and it seems she was more susceptible to it after Trump was elected because she became very fearful, instead of trusting that all would be well as she has taught others for so many years. Her parents also moved in with her and they might be influencing her also.
Glad you agree – I thought perhaps it was just me! I’m also worried about how tired and older she looks these days – she was always so well groomed, glowing skin and almost glamorous looking, I’ve noticed lately she looks tired and worn out and does seem to be bothering with her makeup etc – we are all getting older but I always thought Doreen had an inner glowing light shining from within – is it my imagination or has she lost that “glow”?
It could be a change of products! Or perhaps she is tired. It’s really OK to back up off of the lime light and to say enough is enough.
Ultimately, we’ll have to see how this rolls out.
Kind regards,
Sue
I have come to the conversation late but I agree that things were “off” with Doreen and Michael. I think they are working through the global issues of money, power and levelling up to new experiences; possibly aging and community. It was disappointing to hear that she lost confidence in her work with Angels and Archangels book but I wanted to share that she was unhappy with it even when it was first published, she told me then when she signed my copy at her course. I’ve only been to one of her courses although she invited me to attend her certified course for free. I refused as it didn’t ring true for me. I found her to be honest, and intelligent and I could see she was raised in a Christian environment as a child. I got a lot out of her work. I’m glad she is exploring things and I will continue to use discernment to her work as it develops.
I agree as well. When he first starting to appear more on her weekly videos, the empath in me kicked up. I just felt something very off and controlling. I watched the original video (that’s been removed from the Internet). For me, her statements were jaw-dropping and very discouraging. I have her ascended masters book. Just started reading it but cannot read the entire Introduction because she said the book was divinely inspired. I’m struggling with believing anything she’s done or will do is truly divinely inspired. Sorry if that’s judgmental.
I still love Doreen and have felt the same way as you regarding the husband. I really felt he had something yo do with that. At firsy his appearance on the show was nice but then it seemed that he was taking a lot of space and she started to change. I guess it is that type of woman who let go of everything blindly for a man. Her husband seems to really overpower her. It s sad. I still watch her videos. It doesn’t feel the same though and awkward at times.
It absolutely amazes me that one woman who has even after she has made a seemingly incomprehensible segway into another reality for herself still wields such enormous power in the western world
Why do we give her this power ? Why does the western world still fall at her feet ? Every person is as sacred and special and loved in Gods eyes as Doreen Virtue .
The angels and archangels and the ascended masters are absolutely there for anybody who chooses to call on them and make them part of their daily lives just as much as they were there for Doreen Virtue I encourage people to spend their energies fostering their own Angelic connections
.Maybe that’s the whole point of the Higher plan for Doreens incredulous out of left field choice and seeming fall from grace in many peoples eyes .The onus is now on people to take back their power to stop putting Doreen on what must surely have become a very onerous pedestal and make their own discoveries and form their own angelic connections…….
Hi Wendy,
I’m not sure that she actually has “so much power” in the Western World – she is just one of the better known teachers and her inclusiveness and seeming compassion helped a lot of people who normally would have felt isolated in their beliefs come together or find a community. I think that is what is saddest about it, too – that people are actually questioning their own beliefs, which should be firm, no matter who they learned from.
Blessings,
Sue
Even since Michael appeared on the videos I have been tuned off. This is not the first person I have seen become engrosed in a svengali behaviour. I have been a part of Mary Morrissey’s New Thought church when she took thousands of dollars to put New Thought on television and how many people who spent thousands to support it never got their money returned when her then husband was put in gaol for his gross behaviour for basically misappropriating these funds. Her suppporters were all from Hay House based messengers and I loved Louise. We all must be extremely careful at confusing the message for the messenger, and I am both a spiritual and religious believer. God bless our Lord and the truth be told. Don’t be fooled by overnight conversions.
I was wondering about that myself and your perspective agrees with mine. Interesting. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for your comment, Heather!
I applaud Doreen’s honesty in declaring her love and strong affiliation for Jesus. I also state that He is the way, the truth and the light. However .. and this is a big however, her constant reference (complete with monotonous bible number and passages references ) is tedious, repetitive and frankly smacks of unhealthy addiction. Not even the most devout members of clergy would continually quote in this manner. Who is influencing her and who has changed her once joyful and positive style of speaking into this … sorry I have to say ‘boring’ style of address ? Being a Christian doesn’t mean losing the ability to check one’s own behaviour meaning Jesus himself would not continually quote biblical references .. yes he did sometimes but not continually. PLUS there is no need to educate one’s audience on theology … there are millions who have Christian backgrounds and those who, I can guarantee, will not be drawn to believe by continuous bland referencing. Doreen always seemed to speak from the heart not in a monotone anaesthetised way.
I love Doreen and think she has helped millions of souls to connect with spirituality and she still has that talent. I was happy when she declared her love for Jesus and thought she would bring her firm belief to millions more. Yet the style is off putting and patronising to many.
I fully understand why she felt that she had to be honest and state she thought she had got some elements wrong in her previous teaching but if she did so she did it in all innocence. God is loving and would understand that. You are protected at all times by the White light if you ask for that loving protection so there is no need to rush to destroy something that you connected with in complete humility, love and joy. For centuries medics have used therapies that have been proved to be not the best routes to healing but God does not punish the medics because the omnipotent light knows we are continually evolving and learning. We are all in the same boat learning ..
I personally found much of the depictions and artwork on Doreen’s cards naive and overly flirtatious looking .. especially for Angels ! Yet I understood her beautiful sentiments and so I looked past this and concentrated on the message. Now her depictions are standard century old paintings of angels … as nice as they are .. they don’t convey joy just art history. We can all Google and read the history of saints and angels. The reason why Doreen was so unique was because of her personal interpretation of the the spiritual- her personal encounter with the angelic realm. Academic lectures are two a penny and I have to venture to say that there are theologians who could put all this across in more heartfelt ways. Yes she has an enormous audience whereas most theologians do not but my advice would be rather than read passages from the Bible assuming that your audience doesn’t have a clue that they exist, tell us about your personal experiences with Jesus, Doreen.
My guess there is a strong pastor or minister who is ‘teaching’ her and this is all regurgitated in the daily postings. I can sense the feeling of fear in her proclamations of what is right and wrong teaching. This seems to be Christianity but a distorted form without personality and personal connection.
My question is WHERE IS THE LOVE ?
I love Doreen and I want her back.
And one more point .. any biblical scholar knows there have always been accepted prophets .. one of the most noted the Prophetess ~ Anna in the New Testament. These are people who are able to see into the future (although of course it is not technically called the future because in line with quantum physics it is all one time ~ no past, present or future, just the truth) . Divining without the White light of goodness is not good (as again stated when referring to fortune tellers) but using a Prophet aligned with God/Light or asking questions of your Angels, Holy Spirit is fine ! That’s the whole point .. communication is encouraged ! Only align oneself with purely God/WhiteLight/pure love first (leaving ego behind) and all is well.
You have some excellent points! I particularly love this: “I… think she (DV) has helped millions of souls to connect with spirituality.” Absolutely! I wholeheartedly agree.
Also, about the prophets listed in the Bible.
Ultimately, too – the White Light you speak of, the God that you speak of, isn’t confined only to Christianity. That energy is in ALL religions and peoples of all faiths. It is that which binds us all together.
So, again, for me it is a thing of using religion as a reason to disassociate with others that strikes a bad note with me. Her love for Jesus or Christianity is her own choice and relationship with the Universe or God, but she shouldn’t dis others for their beliefs.
KInd regards!
Sue
Coming to this conversation late but Heather and Sue, I absolutely agree. I have just been reviewing the Realm Readers course, and the thought occurred to me that that course and the rest of her work up until last year was valid and accurate in a lot of ways. There were some inaccuracies here and there, but overall it was useful, helpful stuff. When her husband first started popping in to her weekly angel reading videos I thought, oh that’s kind of sweet, but one day he mentioned ‘the devil’, as influencing people in some context and I remember thinking oh, that’s weird.. and I think as he gained more and more influence over her in the relationship everything changed. I think if she says she encountered Jesus, there is probably no reason to doubt that, but I very much doubt he said to her, ‘please immediately disown and disavow your previous work and join a born again church!’ I would say those kinds of moves are wholly down to Michael and perhaps old issues she has unresolved in her psyche. A real shame for someone who previously did so much good! Anyway, that’s my two cents worth.
I agree. She could be under lots of stress before converting to Christianity, or even before she went into new age. Perhaps it is good that she quiet her mind before writing more books. As a new comer of any religion, one can be very passionate in doing anything for it, but sometimes such energy can die or mellow out.
That’s my thoughts. It is always good to validate the past even though we embrace the new, not to condemn it.
It saddens me how this all went down. First of all I loved Doreen for her positive spiritual messages with the Angels. I learned a lot from her and pretty much looked up to her. And now I feel like WTF. I don’t mean that in a bad way, but I’m a bit disappointed in how it all went down. Perhaps she should’ve kept that information personal or to herself, instead of somewhat misleading so many people. I know it wasn’t her intent to do so, and I respect each person’s path, but in the end it hurt a lot of us in some ways. I also agree with a previous post where I sensed there was a lot of darkness surfacing and getting in the way of some of our paths, so be wary dear one as I am sure we will all be tested in some way, shape or form. I still believe in Angels, and Angel Readings as I do them and I help many people with my messages. It just hurts to loose someone u love along the way. And unfortunately religion has a way of separating people and being negative and judgemental a lot of times. Not into that.
Hi Karina,
I totally understand what you mean about religion being a dividing force in many instances, and that was part of what saddened me about the negativity toward the Ascended Masters and deities from other religions. Also, what you said about her hurting a lot of people – perhaps unintentionally, but still.
We all face darkness and negativity – we can only strive to learn from it and transform it.
Kind regards,
Sue
well said Sue, couldnt agree more x
Thanks, Jackie!
I am not a member of the tarot community and don’t believe in worshipping anything. But I do have several of her decks and followed her on Facebook. I saw her speak at an Expo 20 years ago. I enjoyed her Facebook posts and pulling a card now and then from the decks for a positive perspective…to get insight or wisdom about something happening in my life. We need positive, especially in these times when their is so much anger and darkness. I have felt startled and confused by what she has done. When I saw her post on Facebook to repent and follow Jesus…it was the language of judgment, narrowness, and cruelty that has been used by so many to justify hate and oppressing others. At a time when there is so much darkness, I feel like another light has gone out in the world. We need lights that point to kindness, hope and bringing love to the world. We don’t need judgmental orders to repent and follow a narrow religion guided by a book compiled from rumors and myths about a time when slavery and ownership of women was the norm. Doreen choosing this path is just as baffling to me as America electing this president. Where has the light gone?
The light is still there, but it has shifted. We have to make sure that it doesn’t go out.
Blessings,
Sue
I just read about Doreen’s conversion today. I have a huge distrust for the zeal of born again Christians. I read her post about conversion on her facebook page and felt deeply disturbed. For me she sounds brainwashed. I no longer get a loving vibe off her but a religious, judgmental one that you get sometimes from born again’s. That Christianity is the only part. And actually following the scriptures? That has been written and rewritten, is contradictory. It saddens me, as you say a light has gone out.
I totally understand and agree – especially with, “…and actually following the scriptures? That has been written and rewritten, is contradictory.”
We will make our own loving vibe – that is one thing that I am sure of!
Kind regards,
Sue
I bought her books and resonated with her angel work which started years back. Although it was a bit of a shock to hear about such a drastic conversion to a more fundamentalist belief system that clashes with the spiritual community, I was actually turned off to her using her conversion as a public platform to denounce others. When you start preaching to your former audience that they are now evil, surrounding themselves with demons disguised as angels, and need to find a church because it’s mandatory – that is NOT about a personal journey anymore. You are dictating the journey for others using fear|control doctrine. By all means, Doreen should follow whatever her heart leads to if it is sincere. Unfortunately, I do doubt the integrity here and feel there is insincerity in this. Yes, I think the money is lilely a big part of it, cornering a new Christian demographic, but I think there are darker ties to the Elite Establishment with this. Her shift almost appears orchestrated to cause deliberate confusion & chaos amongst the spiritual masses not bound to controlled religion. I do question now if Doreen was a fraud and if I ever really knew her. Sorry, for me, there are just some red flags.
Since she has chosen to remain a public figure with this change of heart, she will receive both criticism and praise. Either way, I feel people are allowed to express how they feel.
“I was actually turned off to her using her conversion as a public platform to denounce others. When you start preaching to your former audience that they are now evil, surrounding themselves with demons disguised as angels, and need to find a church because it’s mandatory – that is NOT about a personal journey anymore. You are dictating the journey for others using fear|control doctrine.”
Excellent point, Heather. It wasn’t about her as an individual any longer when she denounced others.
Something to definitely consider.
Kind regards,
Sue
Thank you. Well put.
I am still confused by her “conversion” and your post sums it up nicely.
I think she has done something which in her own mind bothera her, and she needs the Get Out of Hell FREE CARD (personal hell in my opinion).
What better way to skip over doing an inventory of your own actions than to jump into born again religion?
Also, her fifth husband encouraged her to feel better by turning born again style Jesus.
OR…she is feeling the “hell”ness of all the political drift going on.
OR…she can’t reliably say now that we have to protect our vibe by not.listening to the news. I am a fan of Archangel Michael. Paying attention and protecting the innocent resonates with me. So yeah, I follow the current politics so I can be part of the healing. Whitewashing trouble doesn’t magically make it go away. Being aware and acting on it does.
Just some thoughts…
For.some reason, my learning of Doreen’s conversion has bothered me since I found out just two days ago.
Hi Mary,
Yes. It is hard for many of us to fully sort out why she made the decisions she has. Of course, it could definitely be something that she feels she needs that “get out of hell free card” for – we’ll likely never know.
I actually feel that her pivot toward a born-again Christian stance is kind of a portrait of what is going on in the news. She had been more inclusive and open to others – now she has shut that down and denounced other deities (which, to me is equal to denouncing other faiths). We need more inclusiveness now, not more division and judgment, IMHO.
Thanks for your response!
If you’re interested here’s a link to a public post featuring the April video. Apparently someone, I’m sure one of many, downloaded it from YouTube before it was deleted. Not quite as harsh as I thought it would be from other’s comments. So yes, she’s only directly renouncing the Ascended Masters in this one. I actually find her current video a more direct disavowal of psychic practices.
https://www.facebook.com/lisa.frideborg.eddy
Thank you for sharing, Jean! I was so curious about what she had said in the original.
Kind regards,
Sue
Praise the Lord. I am so happy that Doreen has found Jesus.
17 years ago I had an angel experience which led me to one of Doreen’s books at the library. The book, coupled with my Christian faith, helped me to understand what had happened to me. I admire her and wish her all the success in her ministry. God works in mysterious ways.
Glad that you have found your path, Claudette!
I agree with you, her words on the video, which is back on YouTube, were harsh. I went through the born-again phase with a best friend. She and her husband turned away from everything to follow their path. My friend came around, still has faith but is more centered. Doreen’s turn was complete and although it’s her path, it left me personally very stunned. I have my path, I do not rely on others except for some guidance. I wish her the best. She announced yesterday they are leaving Hawaii…so it’s almost like they are going off-grid.
Hi SueEllen,
Wow! I didn’t realize they were leaving Hawaii, too. I wonder what is going on in the background… Interesting.
Kind regards,
Sue
I just watched this video regarding them leaving Hawaii, mainly due to the amount of rescue animals they have and lack of space. In this video she explains why she has changed direction. I get what she’s saying and it’s totally her decision to make and her journey. It’s an interesting video if you take the time to listen to it in its entirety. https://youtu.be/SSzoATQ-dyo
With all the talk of possible nuclear war and Hawaii warning its citizens to be prepared, just in case, since their location is directly in the path of NK, is why I think DV is leaving Hawaii. But, it’s just my guess.
Fingers crossed that we don’t have to deal with a nuclear war.
Interesting thought, though.
Kind regards,
Sue
Doreen has now purged her YouTube channel of all of her past weekly angel message videos and meditations. Makes sense with her new focus I guess she would eventually have to make a clean break with where she’d been to have any chance of being taken seriously by the Christian community. There are a lot of people there already that are very wary of her. I’m sure this will be another huge shock to her core followers, it’s all gone.
WOW! I hadn’t heard that, Jean. I am kind of surprised. Dang.
Have a fabulous day!
Like many others I was surprised about Doreen’s change of direction. After considering her decision, I feel that maybe like me, she has come home to the truth of her own being, after a long journey of discovery.
Hi Josephine,
As you said, it is her own truth and she has had a long journey. Let’s see where it leads!
Kind regards,
Sue
Doreen Virtue –Another New Age adherent bytes the dust…
NOT
The New Age actually began with Jesus Christ upending the old order.
Prior, reincarnation was likely the only the way things worked until Jesus gave an alternative ….
“What must I do to be saved,” asked the jailer, who was tasked with imprisoning Paul and his companion, Silas. But the latter two later did not escape when an earthquake unexpectedly broke down the walls of the prison .
“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,” was the answer, ” and you will be saved…” (Acts 16:25-31)
Indeed, I wonder how a 21st New Age adherent might answer such a question.
While it is true many Christians have more zeal than common sense, and hypocrites populate their ranks, and perhaps are more visible than hypocrites elsewhere because Christianity does affirm high standards; there are nevertheless many good examples of Christians and ultimately, there is no fault one can find with Jesus except for his admonitions stating he was THE WAY. This does cause problems in the sense that persons with multi-path beliefs to God will reject that view. However, on might ask about all these other masters various New Age movements espouse that have equal or greater footing than Jesus… how is that decided, and how do we know the truth of this is to be trusted??
The New Testament is possibly the most notable all ancient writing in terms of the number of manuscripts, the time of writing in relation to the time of events described, and the completeness of the text. There are few other works of antiquity has been so accurately transmitted. Jesus methodically proves his credibility by miracles punctuating his teachings culminating in the Resurrection.
And with great difficulty some of the audience believed. It was not until the Resurrection and release of the Holy Spirit that the new Jesus movement actually began to grow, adding 10,000 persons in 5 weeks. It was this simplicity and power of this Salvation message that eventually far outpaced its mother, Judaism, toppling the numerous well established religions of Rome and, allowing it to reach into the 21st century and capture the heart of Doreen Virtue.
Hi Michael,
I find your response to be interesting! Of course, I respect the fact that everyone has their own opinions about the Bible and religious texts, especially when applying them to their own lives.
With regards to other religious figures, Ascended Masters, etc., they have roots in many cases that are just as old or older than Christianity.
To each his own…
Kind regards,
Sue
Thank you for your reply Sue!
As to each their own, true…
Yes to unpack that thought further …
Various advice and practices from other religions can be universally useful (this is never doubted).
If the goal is Heaven (or equivalent) and eternal life; which of the known Masters has provided the most historical and anecdotal evidence for the greatest likelihood of that happening?
Also, how do we know that those historical Ascended Masters are correctly represented by the person channeling or otherwise receiving alleged message(s) from them?
As an example, Aimee Semple McPherson, (claimed as Ascended Master Magda), became much publicized as a successful faith healer with tens of thousands of people coming to her for that purpose in each of her meetings in the early 1920’s . As more and more news archives come online, articles about this can be read online and quite interesting;… describing skeptical, astonished reporters to writing about healings that were occurring faster than they could write them down. McPherson gave all credit to Jesus Christ, not some other celestial personage. It is very difficult to find similar well documented miracle evidence, which gives credibility to the seer, and therefore their claims, outside of Christianity.
Another is Fatima 1917, a pre-predicted miracle event where 70,000 persons of diverse backgrounds (but mostly Catholic) claimed they saw, among other things, the sun dance in the sky, the Holy Family and other phenomena. Even skeptics who expected a big bust at the site reported seeing the unusual at the appointed hour with one of them writing of it in his newspaper. Messages given to the seers there(three children ) by Mother Mary, in essence attest to the sovereignty of Jesus Christ.
Is there any highly publicized miracle events or promoting seers on the scale of Fatima 1917 or Aimee Semple McPherson that is giving credence to St Germain and his Violet Flame (or anyone else) for example?
BTW, if understand both the Cross and the Violet Flame correctly, the latter’s function has already been provided for by Jesus’ sin atonement on the Cross and confession of sins via prayer.
Hi Michael,
Thanks for your comment. I think you might be missing the point of what bothers me, though: inclusion and acceptance.
The decks that Doreen turned her back on didn’t only include New Age Ascended Masters, but a variety of different entities belonging to different religions.
With what is going on in the world today, I think it is important to respect the beliefs of others and not deem anyone outside of Christianity to be worshipping false gods. To use your own words, “However, on might ask about (Christianity)… how is that decided, and how do we know the truth of this is to be trusted??
The Bible, as you know, was written by a variety of different people both before the time of Christ, during his lifetime, and afterward. There are HUGE parts missing, including the Gospel According to Mary Magdelene.
To denounce other deities is, in my opinion, just not right.
Everyone is allowed their own opinion and beliefs.
I know that doesn’t answer your question about recorded modern miracles, but I feel that might be beside the point.
Kind regards,
Sue
I felt Doreen was becoming more fear based in her videos at least since early 2016. A lot of people have become that way in these shifting times. Spiritual people are not immune.
I have been helped by her angel channelings and cards. They helped me overcome a lot of fear and drama, and be more love based. When she displayed a new perspective that is more aligned with traditional religion, it felt odd to me. Yet I had an open mind. But it doesn’t seem fresh, it feels like Sunday School Jesus. But I can imagine that is comfortable for a lot of people. It just feels stale and restrictive to me rather than empowering.
I don’t know anything about her current husband, but I have long felt that she had issues with males and gave away her personal power to the men in her life. So it wouldn’t be surprising if that was happening again. I did feel like she was being pressured to conform to church doctrine, either from a person or the church she is attending. I came from a fundamentalist background and her new way of talking and dressing are very familiar. Religion mistakes uniformity for unity.
Thank you for your reply Sue!!!
(putting this as another “main post” since the formatting of the replies is getting too narrow..)
I understand that your main concern is INCLUSION. Not sure how that might be adequately addressed since the God of the Bible seems to be exclusive with that first of the Ten Commandments. Intriguingly, Jesus’ exclusiveness was limited to him announcing he was Way, otherwise it was love thy neighbors, enemies; and the Gospel, first given to the Jews, and opened to all who would accept— which seems pretty inclusive.
Yes, other texts are interesting such as the Gospel of Mary (Magdalene). Significant parts of “Mary” are missing though and it did not seem to be in wide informal circulation as the other Gospels before their integration into the Bible The latest estimated date of any of the current books in the Bible is 95- 120AD. Most scholars place “Mary” somewhere in 120 to 180AD and documents as close to the living witnesses of Jesus as possible were wanted for the Bible. The main message of “Mary” is in regards to women leadership in the church and disagreement about esoteric revelation which is satisfactorily addressed in the New Testament and subsequent church experience .
My main point is to explain the lack of objective verifiability surrounding the various celestial personages as claimed by their respective modern New Age seers. One of Elizabeth Claire Prophet’s daughters asked her why she was not doing miracles. Doing them would be a public display of her actual empowerment from God
The modern miracles as attested to by news reporters (as described in my previous post) are a type of objective verifiability that attest to the credibility of the seer to the cosmic being they purport to represent. If the theology is to be changed, why not support it with a publicly displayed miracle that would excite the news media? Currently; such miracles are most sensationalized in the context of traditional Christianity, both Catholic and Protestant.
Interestingly enough, Michael, even worshipping Jesus, himself, could be considered to be worshipping a god before God, you know? Just because a lot of people say that HE is GOD doesn’t mean that he is.
Also, I don’t limit my quest for connection to The Source/Universe/God(dess) to the Bible. I don’t feel that it is complete and it contains a lot of “interesting” advice and guidance that I just don’t believe in.
And why should anyone gear their religious/theological experience toward the media and reporters? Can’t connection be a quiet, internal experience? Does it need to be displayed for all to see and sensationalize?
There are people in this day and age who are performing miracles – on medical machinery and in the view of the public. These things are being documented. It could be that they are not being given their “15 minutes of fame” because of repression.
Personally, I am one who would like to see much more scientific study of energy healing and work in modern times. There are people who are performing miracles. Perhaps some people are overlooking modern miracles because they are done in the name of Jesus instead of in the name of the person doing the miracle – or because they are performed by people who aren’t Christian. Something to ponder.
Kind regards,
Sue
I am french so sorry for my bad english. I discovered Doreen in 2010 and this change all my life. His oracle cards, books and so on, are my prefered. Not my guru cause I am very independant. I have my own Gods and Godnesses and it’s good! I loved her book about archangels and Ascensionned masters. I keep all these books, it’s not because she became christian than I can change my feeling about all her work. I stay the same. Her choice is her choice, however I don’t like christianity. For me, it’s like a virus…I liked her page on facebook during a long time, some years, but the day I see she put Jésus everywhere, I stop to follow her. Her way is not mine, but I keep her books. It’s just a pity for her….For me, I don’t change about her books, her oracle cards. I love them, and especially these about goodnesses! Good way for her 🙂
there is NO being on earth that is a spiritual teacher or “guru” Every Being is ALREADY spiritual, divine immortal and Free. and every being also already knows their path to follow. we are NOT here to follow ANYONE !!!!!!!! there is NO outer authority that has more power than I in my life. And if everyone believed that, we would NOT react to doreen virtue’s “alleged” conversion. I do NOT and never will trust anyone who suddenly changes path in their lives and then condemns what there were previously teaching… this only reveals that this so called “teacher” is NOT REAL. doreen virtue is a FRAUD and she is now attempting to shove christian beliefs down everyone’s throats… there are enough “christians” doing that already… we dont need more !!!!!!!!!! she is simply revealing her TOTAL lack of TRUE spiritual awareness by condemning what she herself taught !!!!!!! she is NOT ANY type of spiritual teach or guide. she is NOT real in her own life and she is imposing HER own beliefs onto other people and if those people are stupid enough to listen to her, then they will also lose their way.
Oh boy what do I think I t feels like a real betrayal of sorts but then I think everything happens for a reason and I try to see to the Higher design in it all and have come up with two things
One it is a heavy burden to take on a guru status such as Doreen had amongst the new age community and one who is born up to great heights as a guru has a long way to fall I think if Doreen found a way to relinquish her guru status and assume an autonomous path which saw her freed of the responsibilities of a guru and free to chart her own personal and private course once more then that might be a wise and freeing thing for her and it throws the responsibility back on the individual to forge their own connections with Source and the angels …..and to define their own journeys which is a wise thing
However I don’t really appreciate the way in which it was done and it seems like such a retro step
I dont like the fact that apparently she renounced the Ascended Master packs when Christ himself is one of the ascended masters Those of us who have done the research know that the current version of the bible was a smorgasbord of accounts thrown together for the purposes of social control and political gain the time of Constantinople Surely Doreen of all people knows this
Also I loath and detest that Hay House has been cashing in on Doreens conversion being quick to release’ Mornings with the Lord” That crass commercialism just leaves me cold
Also just prior to Doreens conversion I wanted to help my mum who was aligned to some very conservative church views and brought her a pack of Doreen Virtue angel tarot cards in the hope it might offer her a more expansive loving and intuitive view of the Universe Now I have to turn around and tell my mum that Doreen has done a turn around ……..its a bit awkward andconfusing ………
In closing I think it is a prime example of the fact of us all having ultimate free will in matters .and that blindly following any guru is really not a good idea but rather to honour own our connection and our own intuitive connection with the Divine and the Angels because whether Doreen still vouches for them or not its my safe guess they are still there for us to guide and comfort us every bit as they were before Doreens conversion
Wendy B
Hi Wendy,
“Those of us who have done the research know that the current version of the bible was a smorgasbord of accounts thrown together for the purposes of social control and political gain the time of Constantinople.” Exactly.
The Bible isn’t the only religious book out there, and Christianity isn’t the only religion or way of connecting with God. I’m really sad that exclusion is the way forward for HH and also for Doreen Virtue. Especially when the world needs understanding and inclusion.
Kind regards,
Sue
I believe by this act which I know seems like high treason to some Doreen Virtue has not only relieved herself of the ownerous responsibilities of guruship and asserted her right as a sovereign free will being to believe what she likes but she has also squarely put the responsibility back on the individual to seek out and strengthen and honour their own connection with Source and the angels and the ascended masters .I am sure they wont stop acting to guide and comfort us just because Doreen has done a bit of a turn around
what I hate though is how Hay House has immediately cashed in on Doreens conversion by putting out a book of Christ centres devotional scriptures This brazen and crass commercialism makes me very cynical
Yep. I agree that commercializing her conversion is quite something. I also agree that people have to honor their own connections to Source without needing a go-between or guru.
Kind regards,
Sue
I agree with you that people need to honor their own paths. At the same time, I also wonder about commercializing the conversion. I guess time will be the best identifier of what is really going on with her.
You hit the nail on the head, Dena – commercializing the conversion. I think that is one of the biggest ick factors in this for most (myself included).
Kind regards,
Sue
It’s all about the money and Doreen is remaking her brand to tap into another market. This has nothing to do with true spirituality.
Religion is ‘big business’ and I’m not judging that (Lord help me if I am!). She helped me many years ago with her angel messages and got me in touch with Archangel Michael who has been my guiding light ever since. I act as a messenger of his now and I absolutely adore the work I do and the messages that come through me are profound and often bring me to tears of joy love and gratitude. I own her Archangel deck and recently a friend sent me the AA Michael deck which I love, but I’ve always added my own intuitively received message with each card because I feel the angels have more to say sometimes and the card just acts as a guideline. Strange enough I’ve never felt guided to do any of Doreen’s courses, preferring to follow my own inner Light. Michael has always guided me to my own inner Light and this has been all we do, and basically have done over the past 6 years, is lead people back into their hearts – the heart of Love – he calls it. I love Jesus, and all the Ascended Masters, and I don’t believe there is anything wrong with that. Recently Michael guided me to read Aurelia Louise Jones’ book called The Seven Sacred Flames and I feel overwhelming love coming through from the Ascended Masters and their teachings. As Michael says, practice discernment always. Always your truth lies within you, is what he’s been drumming into me ever since we began our service work together. I think Doreen did a lot of good helping people get in touch with their angels, but perhaps it is time for LightWorkers now to look within themselves, to their own inner guidance on what resonates as their truth, and not someone elses. The same can be said of the president of the USA – he is stirring up old nonsense (meaning it makes no sense) that will wake people up and that is his purpose now. Maybe Doreen is doing the same thing for LightWorkers, albeit unbeknown to her. Look within yourself and to no one else. Your heart knows its truth. As Michael says, there is purpose in all things 🙂 Love and blessings ♥
Hi Deborah,
“As Michael says, practice discernment always. Always your truth lies within you” – YES!!!
It’s wonderful to see that you are taking what fits for you and understand that it is YOUR journey.
Blessings!
Sue
Hi! Thank you for your post! I really like the way you express the feelings and thoughts of many of us! 8 years ago, I created my own fb page where I shared many nice things just for my own pleasure. There were articles, images and videos helping me very much to heal my broken heart that time. I was also sharing a lot of things written and said by Doreen Virtue. I also started to translate her weekly readings into our language and post them on my page. Very soon the number of people following my page started to grow rapidly! We all loved her teachings so much! It was like having a “friend out there” who is always here for us and helps us to not get lost in a world where so much darkness appears every day.
I have to admit, about a year or maybe two years ago, the translations of her readings started to be less and less in accordance with my true feelings. I was doing them just because our people wanted them anyway. Yes, she was still giving us many good advices and guidance, but there was more and more “religion” in it and I didn’t like it at all. It was all about “the God up there” and “us down here” like we were divided from one another. Those “big words” about the “Great Creator” always sounded so alien to me. I always felt the true “god” as LOVE itself – since only love is really in ALL of us. No God is common to us all, but love is. And I believe that LOVE is the only true God and it doesn’t need any “wise book” to spread between people. Everyone is naturally led towards love, even the atheists.
I was raised in a christian family and this religion had a terrible impact on me – I’ve been living my whole life with guilty feelings, bad feelings about liking material pleasure etc. It was Doreen herself who helped me to get out of this! I will forever be grateful for her books and teachings which helped me to free myself from christian judgmental world! It really hurts me that she returned to this – even though she said her actual church is not judgemental and accepts everyone (in the video interview). I know, not all Christians are judgemental. I have friends who are Christians and are so open and free just like all the others and I never had any problem with them because of our beliefs. But since I’ve seen Doreen being guided mainly by that old book written hundreds years ago and basically judging everybody who doesn’t follow Jesus and christian God, I am very heart-broken. She was such a light for all of us who were working on spreading love and peace in this world! She was connecting us all and leading us to love and light… But yes, I agree it is important to believe in OUR own path in the first place and to not be dependent on anybody else and his or her opinions. It is true that it is a great lesson for all of us – if we stay true to ourselves in spite of the pressure of other people’s opinions or let another person to change us just because he or she changes.
When she publicly spoke on her facebook page in September and said she stopped doing the readings and started to make christian videos reading the Bible, I felt a huge grief that day. But also that day when I was so shocked, I felt the presence of my angels SO deeply like never before! I TRULY felt their love and peace! This made me feel good about everything again because I knew that even though I didn’t like the change, it helped me to connect with them by myself. I stopped relying on her. It also showed me and many others how dependent we became on what she was doing and how much we let other people (who we adore) to influence our own thinking and feeling. Now we are “forced” to find our own way and listen to our own inner guidance which truly is a blessing.
Of course, I totally respect anybody’s right to choose their path. I have no problem with letting Doreen go her own direction and I do not take it personally. But I won’t let anyone (including her) to push me into another belief than is true to me, especially by threatening by “hell” or rejecting pagans, witches etc.! I love my path and it brings a great joy and love to me and all the people in my world, so there’s no point in changing it! I have many pagans and witches as friends (I am also one of them!) and they are much more loving and kind than any Christian with the “right” belief. And LOVE is all that matters to me. Not GOD.
Thanks to Doreen’s old teaching, I have about 60 000 followers on my page today. All of them are beautiful, loving and sensitive people, always prepared to help one another, spreading light and trying to find new ways and solutions for problems in the world. It’s a beautiful community of lightworkers and nobody can say it’s wrong in any way. I am going to continue in this work no matter what Doreen or anybody else says now. I left her page and wish her well. I refuse to follow any fear-based and/or rejective belief. I refuse to spread fear and division. I don’t know why did this happen and it is not my business so I let it go and focus on my path.
I would love to encourage all the people who are hurting by this change to not question themselves and to continue spreading light and love in the world by the way THEY feel as the right one. We can do it! Blessings to you all! <3
Dear Magdalena,
I love some points you made: LOVE is the connection – the source – perhaps even God. It is the thing that binds us all together and we don’t need any book to lead us to judge those who aren’t like us.
And really, as you said, we can continue spreading light and love in our own ways.
Blessings,
Sue
If this is Doreen’s true path then so be it..I can honestly say that I was surprised at her public announcement regarding her ‘conversion’ largely because I have always felt belief to be a matter between the self and our maker. I have never seen her as a guru but as a light that shone brightly for a time…and in that time I bought myself a couple of her angel and goddess decks and the odd book. I found over the years that I became less and less interested in her as an author. I strongly feel that she jumped on the bandwagon as it were and simply wrote about anything and everything, saturating the market, the proverbial money making machine. Having said that, good for her if that was where she was guided to go. In many respects she has helped countless souls, and now whatever her direction, she may well help many more. We do not know her souls path, if this is the road to her personal crucifixion.. again..so be it. To publicly disassociate herself from mediumship is in turn possibly our personal crucifixion, that is if we want to give energy to her thoughts, words and deeds. I do not. We are who we are, and centuries of finger pointing, led to many a beautiful soul being burnt at the stake for being their god given selves….those days are over. May we all send love out into the world to shine so clearly that we see our own path to enlightenment and peace. I have really enjoyed reading the heartfelt comments on this page and appreciate that in essence all we really want is to understand. We may never know for sure..and so we move on.
Hi Ann,
Absolutely this: “in many respects she has helped countless souls, and now whatever her direction, she may well help many more.” That is definitely true. I also agree that we need to get over the finger pointing and those things that lead to persecution. It saddens me that she seems to have turned in a direction that – for many people – encourages distrust and demonism of people who connect with spirit and spiritual realms in other ways, besides through the “church, the Bible, and priests”.
I feel sad for those who really question themselves over her change of heart and beliefs.
Kind regards,
Sue
I totally agree with you Sue. I pondered over her actions and for a short while felt that she was giving licence to those whose agenda is to cause maximum damage to the loving souls who do this work. However, upon reflection, I know that this is only possible if we give authority to Doreen’s words and actions, thus disempowering ourselves. I understand that her followers, especially those who are hurting right now, have done exactly that. To them I would say take back your power dear hearts and allow yourselves to heal and grow, trust that this challenge has led you to this amazing opportunity. Doreen is simply another human being, who for all intents and purposes appears to have succumbed to the church’s special brand of indoctrination, with love and respect let her walk on, let go. Then when you are ready make peace with the situation and walk tall, never giving authority to any one person over your goddess selves. Perhaps I am one of the fortunate in that I have never given Doreen authority in my life, her oracle cards were exactly that..just cards. Her book, just one of very many books that have found their way into my library, all of them simply tools. Be your own light in this world and for everyone of all faiths/non faith……May Your God go with you.
In Holland where I live the news has not spread around yet. As a CACR and AI I feel totally let down by Doreen and have not been feeling well for the past days after reading all the articles, comments, etc. on her conversion. I saw one of her video’s today on FB and noticed that she looked so tired and exhausted, so different than when she did the angel courses. She looked full of light then. I have not watched the whole video so far, I can watch it for a minute or so, then I have to turn it off. What upsets me is that for me the Bible is full of violence, rape, incest, and an angry God. What all the wonderful New Age teachers have taught me in the past 20 years or more, including Doreen, is that God is pure love and that we are all connected. That is why I cannot understand why she made this decision. I was proud to have my certificates and, doing card readings for others, I loved her decks. Now I wonder about some of the decks I have, like the Fairies, Goddesses, Mermaids and Dolphins. Will they be ‘banned’ too? In the AI course I took earlier this year she announced that her son Charles is taking over the angel classes after she has given them for so many years and she was going to retire. I thought that sounded plausible. Now I feel it was not the whole truth. In my workspace I am surrounded by Doreen Virtue products: calender, tarot decks, books, framed certificates. Also what I teach and tell my clients is also based on what Doreen taught me in her classes. I have not figured out what to do yet, but I hope that this feeling of desillusion will soon go away.
Hi Jorinde,
I so understand what you mean! On the one hand, I still love working with my DV decks, but I am leery of using them – simply because of the negativity that this has brought out!
🙁 Bummer, too, because they are also some of my faves. But I know their energy in readings comes more from me and the client than from Doreen.
Kind regards,
Sue
her daily readings and work resonated with me a lot.. What about The new world she had vision of based on love and freedom… when is it starting
That isn’t anything that starts and stops with her, in my humble opinion, Shweta! The New World based on love and freedom is something that we, as Lightworkers and humans, have to work on bringing to fruition.
Best!
Sue
ya it will be there thank you for confirming… Where can we get updates about it… New robot technology developing which might not be good… Will it be all peaceful… How soon dear
Hi Shweta,
Not sure what updates you are referring to. But, stay in the communities you are in (light-based) and do your work. That’s all we can do!
Kind regards,
Sue
Hi, I replied to an earlier comment back in November that is still sitting there awaiting moderation, so thought I would just start again here.
I had just watched this video regarding them leaving Hawaii, mainly due to the amount of rescue animals they have and lack of space. In this video she explains why she has changed direction. I get what she’s saying and it’s totally her decision to make and her journey. It’s an interesting video if you take the time to listen to it in its entirety. https://youtu.be/SSzoATQ-dyo
Hi Caroline,
Sorry – I wanted to watch it before I posted it… and it is almost 40 minutes long!
I agree with you, though – her life, her SPIRITUAL choices. For me, I choose something different, but I don’t allow my choices to influence what others choose.
Kind regards,
Sue
Dear Sue do you know the date or year when will it start..
Hi Shweta,
It’s already started and is in process now. There is so much going on that our light is needed to help move in a more positive direction. No reason to wait.
Kind regards,
Sue
Thanks I appreciate your authentic path- I’m with you. I pray and have anger, eat meat sometimes and get angry too.. for me it’s all about being authentically here while remembering there is a spiritual world too. I was bummed but not shocked by her intense videos. I am grateful for the introduction she gave me to some awesome angel entities and I too find them comforting. But I never found her to feel solid to me, just another interesting voice in the chorus.
Yes! Absolutely, Joanell!
Thank you for your comment!
If her New awakening comes attached with a new line of Doreens “new connection to Jesus” products just like her multiple Tarot sets which were quite a bunch , then we know exactly what this epiphany is about.
Truth. I think it coincided with a Jesus deck.
Doreen’s conversion was very surprising. She had done some earlier work collaborating on the audio version of The Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard. Gary’s book helped many people understand A Course in Miracles which is the real message that Jesus wanted to convey to the world, not what the current Bible and Christian religions are perpetuating. I thought she understood Jesus’ real message.
Hi Rik,
Yeah, I guess that is the sad part about the whole thing to me: that she started condemning others when she converted. Some ask What Would Jesus Do? I don’t think it’s that.
There’s a lot of interesting debate to this topic. It amazes me that it is still burning so brightly.
Blessings,
Sue
I can’t believe how fascinated we are lol over Doreen’s conversion! This thread has been going on for over a year now!
I found something interesting the other day. It is a recording of a meditation I had in May 2014, 3 years before Doreen’s Jesus experience where he appeared in front of her and was glowing white light from his heart. In 2014, I did a guided meditation where you were to meet an angel who had a message for you. I met Jesus and in my account of it, which I just found, I wrote how surprised I was that he appeared because everyone who knows me knows how anti-Christian I am. No offence to anyone but that is how I feel. Anyway, here is the most important part of MY experience …
He was dressed in long flowing robes and he took my hands in his and it was a very brief message. He said that I need to show my love to the world and that my love will heal the world. Then I felt this incredible love coming from him through his hands. It filled up my whole being and he was this white light and I filled up with this white light and I felt very loved and realized that I was very loved on the other side. Then he said that I was pure love and I felt that and I felt that he was pure love too.
I was quite affected by this experience and it changed my entire perspective of Jesus. He has since appeared in other meditations and I now feel like he is guiding me and I actually do have a relationship with him. BUT I certainly did not convert to Christianity and I am still anti-Christian as far as the religion goes. Interesting that we had similar encounters but came to completely different conclusions.
I read a lot of comments here about not being judgemental. I trust my intuition and my instincts tell me Doreen is off her path and fear and whatever else has led her in this direction. I can’t ignore my intuition but there is no judgement involved. I actually worry that she will get so far off her path that she may not be able to find her way back. Anyway, just my thoughts.
Doreen is no different than any who seek the truth while living on this earth plane. My life journey was greatly enriched by her teachings on angels and using the ancient text, The Bible. As one who was guided by my own desires to study in the counseling field, becoming an LMSW and then what seemed amazing guidance to massage therapy, reflexology, essential oils, herbs…to become a mind/body therapist, to then experience the gift of channeling, my spirit resonated with the truth Doreen spoke on angels. I too was raised in a Christian community, a Christian belief more founded in patriarchy then spiritual living. Yet, that foundation had truth in it that when I learned to follow the spiritual guidance in me I was able to appreciate the teachings and how they were meant to be lived in our own life experience. To ask for outer guidance as the Divine uses all in our life through circumstances, and those who come as messengers, this can be our personal growth experiences in discovering the reality of Divine in us and outside us. Doreen knows her use of teachings, perhaps to increase truth in this world, or to merely increase her wealth. It is my prayer if she is being influenced wrongly by others the truth in her and in the world will awaken her. To know the truth sets all of us free, even those who were leaders promoting their teachings as truth knowing they were promoting illusions. Our spirit that is truth will resonate when we hear the truth. To know the truth sets you free from all illusion, pain, confusion. Do not be a lamb led to slaughter, rather listen and feel your way to finding the truth. Feeling your way to truth is to become sensitive to the spirit in you that is meant to guide you to all truth. When something does not feel right, does not sit well with your spirit, truth that feeling! You were given a spirit in you to guide you, this spirit can always be trusted. Let that be your guide always.
I used to be a Love n Lighter (coming in, in the 90’s). Then something happened in 2011 that shook me up a bit. I saw this article http://www.engaged-zen.org/articles/Kobutsu-New_Age_Legacy.html and I immediately started looking at the new-age differently. I started feeling uncomfortable about how certain ideas seemed to be making people sick. I had new age friends or clients telling me on a weekly basis how they learned they were a different label (starseed, indigo, and some would name off two or three), how their ascension process or shifts in vibration were making them faint or have sick all the time, or that they drew the abundance card and were going to win the lottery. I watched people fall for scams (financial or romantic) based on twin flame theories, 11:11, or angel card readings. I saw clients with restraining orders against them because they believed a love interest or celebrity was there “twin flame.” Sometimes all it takes is reading something, seeing a youtube, or going to church to experience some sort of moment where all your former beliefs aren’t something you believe in any longer (or the same way).
While I don’t feel angel cards or intuition is evil, people can have sudden changes of heart with the new-age. Doreen seems to be fearful her cards will encourage idolatry (worship of false gods) and that people will go to hell if they use them. Following her twitter, it looks like she’s been on youtube and watched videos on people claiming they died, went to hell for idolatry, and came back. This is probably why she asked people to throw the cards away or burn them. She sees them as encouraging idolatry. I’ve seen twin flame or other experts have changes of heart like this too and what can you do if you’ve branded yourself to what you no longer believe in? And/Or believe people will go to hell for believing in it??
Most born again Christians that I’ve seen (which I’ve seen other angel card users convert to Christ) do respond how Doreen has. They immediately feel sensitive to things being anti-christian or demonic etc. I think she honestly became born again christian and this is how she is trying to cope with or process it.
It’s interesting to see the cards labeled as “idolatry” worship, IMHO. I have a little bit of an alternative viewpoint of Jesus if you want to pick apart the Bible and its teachings. But that is my thing, not Doreen’s. As I mentioned, her relationship with God is her own. I just wish she wouldn’t have bashed those she helped come into their spirituality.
Kind regards,
Sue
This whole Doreen ‘Virtue’ scam has gone far enough. I wonder if she’ll reimburse the thousands of vulnerable women she scammed over the years?
Hi Majella,
A lot of people do feel that she’s ripped them off. I really don’t, though. Personally, I got a lot of great information out of her books and working with her decks – invaluable to me, really. There are some who did give thousands to her for courses — even right before her announcement — I can see how those people would feel taken advantage of.
But yes. I understand what you are saying even though I don’t feel the same about my own experience.
Blessings to you,
Sue
Hi I just read your well thought article. I wonder about all those years Christians informed her that her work was not of God and made reference to scriptures against her work she made amends to and admitted her blindness? Instead she blocked many from her sites. Carolyn
I take it that you have never heard of “Why I am no longer a lightworker” by Cameron Day. For most people who I show this to, it’s quite literally a matrix-breaker. I wish I could say the same for myself, it was a long, hard and painful path for me to arrive at these conclusions on my own, but reading it granted me an immense relief that I’m not a kook after all, that maybe being on the fringe was better all along. It was a comforting validation. I came from a family where I was steeped in christianity like a tea bag. I was a polemicist from an early age, questioning the nonsense, contradictions and numerous atrocities in the buy-bull, I had the Sunday school teachers sweating and leaning back on their heels until I was eventually disinvited haha. I gradually made my way over to the new age scene, at the time it felt like it may provide pieces to the rest of the puzzle of life where christianity not only lacked but impelled you to turn your brain off aka “have faith”. But over time, I began to pick up patterns, much of which are already covered in Cameron Day’s piece so I won’t detail much more here other than that the main reason I walked away from that was: much like the religious church environment, the new age environment was a junkie industry. They turned out and sustained spiritual junkies. In religion, there are middlemen: pastors, so called chosen, prophets, a man made man edited book. In new age, there were channelers who were basically serving as hand puppets for who knows what. And their messages all began to sound the same: woo woo lovey dovey platitudes, vague or misleading answers to specific questions, prophecies that are never fulfilled, and dangling the carrot of “one day”. Christians chase that “one day” carrot. The negative side to that is that not only does this remove any impetus to focus on the present or what they can personally do to fix or solve, it fosters the same attitude as a spoiled trust fund brat with a rich parent “When daddy gets here, he’ll pay for it/fix it.” The new age channeled messages weren’t much different, after a while, that “one day” began to feel more and more like stalling. I sensed manipulation and the followers developed an unhealthy dependence like, well, junkies. And YET, they just GUSH over their gurus, crediting them for giving them SELF EMPOWERMENT?!?
I once followed Doreen Virtue for a while, she was a large factor in my observations on how it’s really an industry that creates junkies. She contradicted herself so much between self empowerment and dependence on external help that over time, one can interchange both as the same thing. This is a common tactic used, from cult leaders to politicians. Self empowerment, but buy my books churning out at the rate of a belt fed machine gun. It will “help” you gain more self empowerment. It is just another carrot to chase. The same way doctors stand to make more managing your illness than curing you, think about it.
I have a love/hate relationship with oracle cards. They help up to an extent, but it’s all too easy to become overdependent on them. Nothing underscores this more than the sheer quantity of decks under her name alone. She passed the point of no return when she started photoshopping her face and that of her fam & friends, quite literally cutting them out and pasting them over, the figures in her own oracle cards (I forgot which one it was). There are no words to properly describe that kind of tackiness haha. What’s more is, I was using them once for a specific question and I got a “yes”, “no” and “maybe” all in the same reading. I asked for help online for possible interpretation and the consensus was “what are your feelings/instincts telling you?” Obviously it’s unclear enough to where I feel the need to use this aid! I asked myself how elaborate of a message can one fit into a medium like oracle cards? I then nicknamed oracle card readings as “baby block messages”. Try expressing deep thoughts and feelings using only baby blocks haha. I have come to find they serve as a minor supplement at best, but not as a tool to progress. Many don’t know any better and this medium develops into a crutch where they can’t think of a question WITHOUT wanting to consult. I know because there was a point that I developed an addiction.
The thing with these tools such as oracle cards or channeling, much like ouija boards: you have no guarantee of exactly who’s at the mic if you know what I mean. “As above, so below”, so what makes you think the “other side” is free and exempt from scam artists, liars and identity thieves? Even if you call out the “right” name, you have no way to really know. You say you “feel” it’s true…in reference to what? That’s one of the pitfalls, a person typically doesn’t have anything to compare to in terms of spiritual experience as they sadly experience it so rarely if at all. They often take overwhelm as authenticity. But that leads to a longer discussion. In the big picture, every single thing mentioned above all rely on externalities one way or the other. You can’t be self empowered when you’re chasing after a new shiny, promising that this is “it”, just like all the other times but this one’s different somehow. One of the biggest trick that has been played on us is being so occupied in distraction that all the power and answers we need are within ourselves, tricked to the point where we feel we don’t have enough or any at all, to the point we are seeking the answer through externalities and by doing so, we give away power we didn’t even know we had…and likely never will. If you feel you need to chase down angels and so-called ascended masters (which I think is a scam but that’s another topic), that shows me just how deeply you’ve been duped. I am a big believer in the Socratic method, and Socrates’ philosophy: there is no such thing as learning, it’s all a process of remembering.
Hi Lydia,
Thanks for sharing your opinion! It seems as if you have done a lot of searching in your quest for understanding as well.
It’s interesting that you feel that working with energies like those associated with Angels and Ascended Masters implies, in some way, that people have been “duped.” Personally, I’ve seen the comfort and peace that those energies have brought in my own life, and to others as well. It doesn’t mean I need a middleman of some sort to feel connected to the energy around me, nor does it mean that I am perfect or “all light” or flawed by my being a human. It means I am open to working with subtle essences of what might be my own Higher Guidance or might be from Sources that are labeled in certain ways because they share characteristics when many people work with them or they summarize lessons that are archetypal in nature. It doesn’t mean, either, that I am a part of the Christian/Modern Religion patriarchy, either. It means that I do my thing and encourage others to do the same.
I’m reading the article you recommended now and would prefer to fully process the information within it before having a discussion about it.
I wish you the best to you as you find your own way.
Sue
Thank you Lydia for this – its an eye opener and struck a chord with me – thank you for your candid input …it has made me think a little more about how I approach prophecy from either a Christian base prophet or a psychic. I appreciate all that it implies.
Hi Lydia,
It’s interesting. It seems like Why I Am No Longer A Lightworker totally misunderstands much of what we were taught. While it might have led you to a personal AHA moment, it actually reinforced much of what Lightworkers teach and use as guidelines for their work.
Kind regards,
Sue
I used to follow Doreen and a bunch of other “lightworkers” until ine day I realized…this people always make me feel I’m not good enough. Why can’t my angels help me when I ask them to? Why do I have to go trhu all this “raise your vibration” rituals and completely change who I am (my diet, my clothes) just to get an answer? Then I realized why do I need any of this people to talk to MY angels for me? Why are you any better than me?. And why are my angels so picky that they will only listen or help me if I’m good and perfect and give up coffee? It all sounded so cruel. Then I turned to my own inner world and I decided not to listen or follow anyone anymore. I was a junkie too, as you well mentioned,and its a long path to recovery. But when you are down and desperate these people sound like they have an answer so I don’t judge myself over that either. It was a though lesson to learn and I’m a much better person now than when I was hooked on the whole New Age thing.
That was one of my issues with Doreen’s work as well – that everything had to be so “perfect”. Then I realized that my angels (or Higher Self or whatever you want to call it) actually would and did work with me, even if I did eat meat or sugar or if I wasn’t “perfect”.
And really, it is good/best to learn to listen to your own guidance. You don’t need a guru or a proxy to get messages from Spirit.
Perhaps that is the whole point of it all.
Best of luck!
Sue
Hi,
I’m really into angels, law of attraction and basically living a happy life without harming anyone else. I find it very hard to understand how a person that used to talk about angels, and positive messages can all of a sudden change to a mind set of fear, sin and hell. I say this in a very respectful way by no means do I intend to offend anyone that follows that path, everyone is free to follow their own bliss, it’s just hard for me to understand how someone chooses fear over love, it really shook me and I’m having a hard time wrapping my mind around this issue. If someone has an answer I’d really appreciate it.
Hi Polly,
Usually, it’s some sort of internal fear that the person can’t overcome, no matter how “high vibrational” they were at a different time in their lives. People who connected with her former work don’t need to follow the same path as her, for sure! Take what works for you and leave the rest.
Only Doreen knows why she made the decisions she made. We can only speculate about it.
I hope that helps!
Sue
Hi
I have been using DV card Decks and meditations for years. The angels gave comfort through good times and bad. I’ve only just heard about DV transistion to christianity and my first thought was like ok, this is interesting! Then as i read on and she put a sledgehammer through my heart by revoking everything she had previously taught, I did not feel warmth or light, i felt anger and rage!
For the many people who have hung on her every word, to those that truly believe and for those that were seeking comfort, love and joy in true times of very challenging times in their lives, DV has shattered their trust. She has been irresponsible with her words and actions and has no doubt caused alot of vulnerable people pain and left them with alot of unanswered questions. I believe in God, angels, fairies, goblins, Good and bad. I live my life the best way i know how, love and light. Everybody knows that none of us are perfect and we all follow our own spiritual path. But those of us who have the honour to teach on mass must take responsibility for their pupils and this is a very basic requirement. To change her hair colour from angelic blonde to a darker shade and to create a new website, is to change how people perceive her. Commercially and tactically clever. I think that her move towards christianity is a brave one, i do not think she should preach about her beliefs on a public platform after her departure from the angelic realm but pursue her faith privately and not commercially. I do not enjoy the feelings she has left within me but i will love a little harder and shine the light a little brighter, i send love to her and i hope she finds inner peace. X
You’re right, Serena! What we should do is shine a little brighter and love a little harder and hold onto our beliefs and comforts. She might have changed course, but we don’t have to!
Blessings,
Sue
I discovered Doreen Virtue at a time when my life was going through major challenges. Divorce, unemployment, and mental health issues. Doreen was like a beacon of positive hope and I guess that I may have put her on a pedestal. I even attended her AI seminar in Sydney which was the last one she did. Boy, was that a total waste of time and money as she had already started her transition to born again Christian and wasn’t teaching any of the things that were advertised.
Once she had changed direction so profoundly it was like a smack in the face to those of us who were her loyal supporters. I am just now starting to rebuild my spiritual world/journey after feeling like the rug was pulled out from under me.
Her journey is her business but when you have such emotional, psychological and spiritual influence over a large number of followers, you need to be a little more discreet and compassionate in how you speak moving forward. She is after all a doctor of psychology. She should have known better. But we are all human and we all make mistakes and I forgive her and hope she finds what she is obviously looking for in this new path that she’s chosen.
Hi Nick,
Yes, some of what she did was horrible to her followers. Really made them question themselves. I guess it is a reminder that we have to follow our own paths and make the work the most important thing, not the teacher. We’re all learning!
Kind regards and good luck on your path!
Sue
Today in the new year two books on my enormous shelf of books have been plaguing me as I can almost sense Lousie Hay saying you can do it! but as second book approaches me – healing within angels. I find myself saying, I know she did not really write it. She was just a feather – a human inspired – human angel. If she lost her soul does that mean what was written is lost. What she created in light she has now put in darkness.
Doreen changed from one experience, when she went to a church, many unclean human hands force a spirit is – witchcraft. She saw thru a person that she understood had a pure heart Christ. But how do I explain to a child the relativity of light. As she explained her vision the light was diminishing. The sun/son was setting and not rising. Direction matters.
Witchcraft is closest to her everyday life now. Her warning is for herself she just has not understood her own lessons. So she teaches others.
Hi Karen,
I don’t view “witchcraft” in the same way you do at all. Witches were oftentimes simply educated women who do things like read, work with herbs, bring children into the world, etc.
To me, the church, Christianity, and being overly zealous and judgmental are far more dangerous and damaging than opening up to different forms of wisdom.
Thank you for your comment!
Kind regards,
Sue
Naturally, you will delay and resist the unpopular and widely misunderstood words of Jesus Christ. So many of new age believers are going back to Jesus Christ.
New age beliefs are all about you empowering yourself. To teach us to see enlightenment and strive to be on the top and do better every day and this makes it harder for mankind to struggle thinking they are better off without Jesus. Mankind can not save themselves. We are beyond corrupted and we need Jesus Christ to assist us during this journey. The disillusionment of mankind to believe they don’t need God or Jesus is the greatest lie. Doreen Virtue found Jesus Christ. One cannot fully understand Christ until you research Him, pray to Him to show you the answers you are seeking. I believe the knowledge of bible history facts, understanding the culture of the time the scrolls were written, understand their beliefs of that time and it helps one to understand Jesus and why his message is so powerful and yet a few accepted him: there are many Christians who are carried away with the pipe dreams of the savour Christ and have no knowledge of historical facts of Jews and Christians. Jesus Christ hold the key to eternity and no one can go there except Him.
Hi Donia,
this is such an interesting comment! I really think there is something about empowering yourself and bettering your own life. I’m curious why that is wrong?
There are many, many people who aren’t Christian who are doing fine ethically, morally, and in their lives. They are living positive, loving and accepting lives.
God and Jesus are two different things, IMHO. But thanks for your comment.
Blessings to you!
Sue
What is making me smile is that Doreen saw Jesus Christ for real. How many Christians saw Jesus Christ in real life? I guess if she had been commercial before which she had she felt scared and guilty. So instead of trying to contact directly Jesus, she is hiding behind her church and the bible. I think she is very scared. But her followers will not start to eat lambs during Easter time! I read the Bible. We all have. But we are thinking by ourselves. We are independent. It will take time for Doreen to be independent again because she is scared.
I think she is trying to serve god they best way she knows how. She has pure intentions and god sees that. She wants to get to heaven and wants to take as many people with her as possible. Her heart is pure and I think that’s all that matters.
Today I had the experience of seeing my artwork with a big X through it on a new video about throwing out all your New Age things. The book cover of “Goddesses and Angels” was labor intensive and meaningful for me, and Doreen liked the painting enough to buy it. It’s very possible that something lovingly painted and carefully shipped has been destroyed. Also seeing a deck I helped created with artwork thrown on a bonfire makes an artist want to lay low. Fundamentalism is an enemy of the arts and art history. It cannot be reasoned with, and this strange turn in an American distortion of Christianity is profoundly troubling. I wonder how the other artists feel, who supplied their imagery to give life to these much maligned decks.
Oh wow, Lisa.
I bet that was particularlz hurtful. I’m sure that you created the art for the deck with nothing but love. And, for many people, your art will remain a symbol of love and connection.
Troubling times for sure.
I wish you only the best!
Kind regards,
Sue
Thank you so much Sue, for your kind words! If I may comment further, the conversion of a public figure isn’t the issue. It is that public figure’s ongoing videos denouncing the people (“unsaved” a euphemism for damned), observances and items on which Metaphysical community and retail depends. I cannot sue anyone for loss of income and reputation, but the fact remains I’m a struggling artist in a small conservative town with 20 churches, while someone who benefited from my skills fans the flames. My troubles are nothing compared to the fact that the beauty and wisdom of ancient cultures are being demonized to gullible people. I feel sorry for Doreen as she’s being attacked by patriarchal fundies on her own side of the fence, in addition to bearing the anger and disillusionment of her ex followers. Without true friends to ground and guide you, a further descent into fanaticism is inevitable.
Hi Lisa,
So much this! ‘My troubles are nothing compared to the fact that the beauty and wisdom of ancient cultures are being demonized to gullible people.’ It seems like it’s total xenophobia and putting down anyone who believes in something other than Christianity.
Thank you for continuing the conversation!
Blessings to you,
Sue
Thank you for your interesting post. I have read that Doreen Virtue is now studying Theology (one that focuses on the bible and fundamentalism rather than the actual history of Christianity). I feel that soon she will repackage her brand as a pastor and then she will be able to ask for donations and sell her books, cards and courses, money, tax-free in the US. Apparently Virtue (by the way, why is still using this name which she created for her new age brand?) still selling her cards and books on ebay and amazon, but since they are “out of print”, they are selling for much more than they were originally (angel cards which were originally $30 are now $300). I was given “Virtue’s” angel cards about fifteen years ago and although I didn’t resonate with what was written in her associated book (the messages felt illogical and chaotic), I found the images very beautiful (they were public domain images, not her original images) and decided to use these cards in my counselling practice. I feel saddened that so many good people will feel they have been practising evil practices (at her instruction) due to Virtue’s decision to vilify other religions and anyone who does not agree with her current fundamentalist message. Anyone who lists yoga, mindfulness and meditation (mentioned in a positive light several times in the bible which I have read and researched thoroughly) as evil is either confused, ill-informed or has a particular agenda. She will no doubt lead others down this new path, making lots of money along the way. She obviously doesn’t believe in karma. I hope all those people who feel betrayed or are now lost, find joy in truth based on love and acceptance, not the demonizing of others or their practices. Thanks again for giving people an opportunity to voice their concerns and opinions. – Sarina (my real name 🙂 )
Yep, I feel the same. It’s a theme in a lot of places right now. Sowing distrust, the demonising of anything different.
There are a lot of us who are sticking to the original, curious, respectful, and light path.
She has her own Karma to face. We have ours. We can only control how we act, react, and share wisdom about spiritual topics.
Thanks for your response!
Sue
As someone who used to also work with angel cards and divination methods, I can understand how this departure and renouncing might make people feel. I also had a experience of being born again and enveloped in the pure love of Jesus Christ who I do consider my Lord and Savior now. What I would say in terms of feeling judged about anything she has said in terms of labeling things as dark or demonic, it definitely is a bit of a shock. But I do feel there are loads of beings who mask as an angel of light. I have changed my mind and heart about this after experiencing the love of Christ and his Holy Spirit helping me to understand truth and discernment of the spirits. I had some weird stuff happen when I opened up to the “universe” or ascended beings etc. And please hear me, it’s not a fear based statement, but it was not a peaceful feeling that was experienced in many meditations I explored in comparison when I am meditating on Christ and his word, and his heart to me as my heavenly father. His holy word is very effective to ward against the enemy and his minions. It’s full of holy power! I do have real lasting peace, that’s the main difference I have now that he saved me. I also got set free from an eating disorder, anxiety, and he reordered my mind and balanced my hypersensitivity. He is the light that shines in the darkness! I believe he is the son of God, the messiah. His power did set me free. After experiencing his grace, I really didn’t want to go back to the new age stuff because it no longer felt complete, or totally safe energetically. I got what I was looking for in Jesus Christ. It is a narrow path, it is said that many will be called but few chosen. We hear the call of his salvation and some choose and some don’t. I do pray for healing by Jesus for those who were by humans traumatized by various sects of Christianity or any other religion. It’s a terrible thing to endure. There are many Muslim children and adults who have been severely abused or killed for their turning away from Muslim. Many religions have hurt others, and that is what can be reconciled at the cross where he forgave us all for our sins. Trauma just needs his love, his forgiveness, just like all of us that he dearly loves. His love unites, and brings true humility, repentance, peace, joy abounding, and hope. His love raised the dead, brought sight to the blind, the paralyzed walked, deaf could hear, and saved men and women from discrimination and death. Jesus is love, he is the light of the world, he is salvation from sin. We aren’t perfect but through his sacrifice we have access to our creator!! It’s truly amazing grace to pray and feel his arms wrapped around you and that feeling of complete security and safety!! Regardless of your path, your past, your mistakes and your successes he is for you and longs for your hand to accept his free gift. That’s the other thing that makes the way with Jesus higher, is it does not cost us anything, but our lives given to love him, and love others with his undying, 100% faithful love. That’s the bottom line, he truly is love. And the only one who never forsakes us or fails us. 100% faithful and true. The only God that took flesh and resurrected the grace, defeated death and evil, and actually can protect and guard us from it. To him be all the glory, forever and ever!! Peace be with you and your search for true love, and real peace in your life.
My peace I leave with you, my peace I give you, I do not give to you as the world gives. Let not your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. -John 14:27
Do not be anxious for anything, but by prayer and Thanksgiving make your requests known to God, and the peace of God which passes all understanding will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus
-Philippians 4:6
Thank you for your comment, Erin.
I am glad that you found peace and relief in Christ. That’s wonderful for you.
I do think “Christ” is an energy available to all of us and appears in many different forms and is called different things by different people. I also think that there are topics and ideas that are “demonized” that actually are natural connections with God that any human (animal, plant) can access without aligning with the Christian faith.
It’s definitely an interesting discussion.
Thank you for your comment.
Sue