The Doreen Virtue Christian Conversion Conversation

Just to let you know, I started this in April 2017 when Doreen Virtue was newly born again and had said negative things about the Ascended Masters books and decks. I see that The Doreen Virtue/Jesus conversation has flared again, making me want to continue working on this piece to share my take on it…

So, I’ve been coming across some really interesting information and debate in the New Age Spiritual Community concerning Hay House author and angel guru, Doreen Virtue.

In the past few years, as many of you know, Doreen Virtue’s work and she, herself – as a brand and celebrity – have skyrocketed. She kind of cornered the angel market and held the reputation of the Queen of Angel Work for the past 10 years or so.

Personally, I have read some of her books and I own a few of her decks. I even volunteered for her in Salzburg, Austria and in Zurich, Switzerland. I met many beautiful friends and business colleagues through her work and at those events. I’ve found her teaching style to be very easy to follow and, I think, well set up for people who are just starting to work intensively with their intuition and with different entities.

Angel work, too, struck a chord with me. I’ve written about my experiences before and find the energy of the angels – or whatever you want to call them – soothing, calming, and just plain nice. When I call on the angels, I feel protected. When I ask the angels for signs they are with me, I often get something totally funny and totally distinct and totally meaningful to me – something that makes me laugh or feel just a little less alone in the Universe.

Some might argue that angels are portrayed as fearsome beings in the Bible, so I am not sure if what I am working with is truly angelic, but whatever – the energy is, to me, calming and healing. (ha-ha! I might get some kickback for this statement.)

I know that I often felt like an outsider in the angelic community, though – or kind of like a double agent of sorts. You see, many people who follow Doreen prefer to keep things on the lighter side. She recommends being vegan, shunning hair color and chemicals, and doing everything one can to remain in a “high vibration state”; I’ve been working on integrating my spiritual side with my earthly side. I curse and sometimes eat meat. I’m not always the most gentle soul in the room.

I am finding power in anger and expression and being REAL – not just (feeling like, to me) shining beams of rainbow glittery light on people who were pissing me off. When I work with sensitive people, I find more success in gently encouraging people to be more powerful and making some hard decisions, not just focusing on the positive in life, glossing over the uncomfortable things in life and especially in the people around them.

So, I’d been feeling that there was something lacking for me in Doreen Virtue’s teachings (like spiritual bypassing that many have been talking about lately) and I backed away from Doreen Virtue, her work, and her teachings. I had gotten what I needed from her message, and I decided to happily pursue my own path – one that diverged from the one that Doreen Virtue spoke about and embraced.

To me, spirituality is a distinctly personal journey. We all come across teachers and gurus who influence our spiritual path. Some of my own have included Wayne Dwyer, Tool (the band), Robert Anton Wilson, Caroline Myss, Gena Thomashauer, my mom and friends, TV and pop culture, art, Terence McKenna, acid experiences, and the Beatles. No one is right, no one is wrong. Everyone is doing their own thing at their own level, and that’s OK.

I know that I might come across a book, CD, or video that will help me to go to the next level, and I don’t cling to the creator of that work for long-term spiritual guidance. I allow my spirituality to evolve and flow in a natural way – and I know that others evolve and grow and shift as well.

So, back to Doreen Virtue and her recent spiritual evolution that included a baptism and turn toward Jesus-centered Christianity, to which I say, “Even though it isn’t for me, more power to her if it makes her feel more spiritually connected and true to her beliefs.” Doreen has always said she is aligned with Christian beliefs and has referenced those many times in the past. If she is born again, then good for her if it takes her to the next level.

The problem that many people have had with this in relation to a message that she sent out (in both video and audio format) that was quickly removed from the internet…. Basically put, from what I understand, she said that some of her followers had “demonic, dark” energy around them as did some of her former work, including the Archangels and Ascended Masters book and the Ascended Masters deck. She actually advised people to burn their copies of these books and the decks associated with them.

I wish I could find links to what she specifically said (from what I understand, moderators for her pages have been busy scrubbing any mention away), but I know that it had a really profound impact on many of the people in the community that she, herself, had built – many people who felt like outsiders in general society had found a comfortable home within the angel community.

For many of those people – especially those who didn’t necessarily vibe with the Jesus angle – it felt like a mixture of being betrayed by their leader and also being singled out as evil and bad, which stung some of those people to the core.

Aside from that, Doreen’s audience IS (or was) multi- cultural and denouncing gods and goddesses from different faiths or backgrounds kind of burned. Learning about different deities and their characteristics felt like bringing people of all faiths together. Declaiming them seems divisive and totally anti-what-I-thought-her-message-was-about.

And there was some sort of denouncing tarot readings and mediumship, too. Hm. Personally, my love for tarot started long before I ever heard Doreen’s name, volunteered for her, and my CACR™ certification is just one small piece of my tarot background and education. When people talk about their certifications being worthless, they might be purposefully overlooking the experience of the class and the content there – which likely added to their tarot practice.

There are those in the tarot community who love her and those who despise her. And really, as I mentioned before – her path is her own biz.

Apropos biz: Many people think her rebirth to the Christian faith is just a business decision – a way to pander products to a different part of the market. If it is, so be it. I almost laugh when I think about someone “selling out to Christ” – even though I know it is a thing. And I know that born-again Christians are popular now and they do have money to spend. But, as I said before, whatever. This is her thing and she can teach those who are interested in hearing what she has to say.

To sum up my feelings about Doreen Virtue’s Christian Conversion, the only thing that bothers me about it is the fact that she made people who she might have once built up feel bad. While her spirituality is, was, and will be her business, she probably should have given a LOT more thought to her words and message during her transition. She could have found different things to say than words like “denounce”, evil, false gods, etc., and not encouraged her team to scrub conversations or people to burn decks and books. A little bit more gentle and light would have been more appropriate.

That’s just my opinion, though.

Each of us has a different and unique spiritual path to follow – even those who are celebrities or gurus. Doreen Virtue embraced her Christian background and made some very public statements about some of what she used to teach. Ultimately, she has every right to follow her own path, but she could have parted ways with those who didn’t fit with her new beliefs in a more constructive manner.

What do you think? How do you feel about Doreen Virtue’s statements and how she handled the change?

69 Comments

  1. I feel like you, I liked many things she taught, but I don’t feel aligned with her Christian message she has been giving out lately – although I had not heard about this happening!! Very strange. Glad I read this!

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    • Thank you, Rachel. I feel like strange is a good word for how this unfolded. Ultimately, we can learn from many people – and we don’t have to keep working with/listening to someone when their message doesn’t fit our reality anymore.

      Have a fabulous day!!

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      • I tried submitting a response not sure if it was received

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        • Hi Tina,

          No, I didn’t receive your response. Did it have links or anything that would have marked it as spam?

          Thank you!

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      • I agree. We can learn from many other people out there. I don’t agree with her newfound message and will not be following her or purchasing anymore of her products or literature.

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        • I agree with you. Her spirituality is her own to claim and walk as she so chooses,but It’s not very “christian” behavior to denigrate the people who have loved, supported her work, and brought her great wealth and fame. She is a hypocrital fraud.

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    • I am sad that she has stopped with the tarot card readings the way she did them. I went through a very difficult time in the past and knowing and receiving support confirming that there were angel signs was very good for me. I have also used her meditations and learned how to think more positive. I felt her weekly if not daily support! I’m missing her. But I will move forward and continue the meditations. Sometimes life is hard and there is such negative energy her angel therapy helped. Perhaps I regarded it as more therapeutic. It was nice I felt supported by her.

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      • Hi Tina,

        There are many, many tarot and angel card (and Certified Angel Card Readers) out there – myself included – who might be able to help you with a reading and with connecting to your angels. You can always find support from her community and also people like Kyle Gray and Radleigh Valentine.

        Blessings,
        Sue

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    • I have felt a lot of dark energy trying to pull individuals from the light. I discounted it and thought it was me. My angels are pure divine fun and loving. They tell me that they need us on earth to keep the love flowing. They mean it too. Doreen virtue has for a year been subtle moving from angel work and I feel anyone getting sucked into a church setting under a name of Jesus centred is false. I know from personal experience. The truth lies in your own set of beliefs.it is right that you don’t worship angels, angel alters etc are a form of idolatry. However, I always found a subtle falseness about her work and that’s my judgement. I feel at this time we have to battle against fear based energies others, the world and our own. Angels are here whether you believe or not. I feel tarot card reading should be done in love. If you do it lovingly and for the light there is nothing wrong in that. Jesus lives in you if you accept him into your life this is true. I witness to this. It’s what you do with love in your life. This is the catch. You don’t worship angels but you do need them for support and help against dark forces to protect and honour love which is you.

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      • Great points. Personally, I’ve also found working with angels to be a happy experience.

        It is interesting to see how this evolves.

        Kind regards,
        Sue

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      • BINGO! I totally agree. People will be falling back to sleep at this time. This is just all the more reason for us to move where our journey takes us.

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      • I agree with you. I will pray for her

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      • Joining in late on the conversation, but I feel you hit the nail on the head. I love my DV book on Ascended Masters and carry it with me everywhere. I have received no indication that anything on my path has changed and will continue to look to this book for guidance from all divinities: gods, goddesses and backgrounds. That is my path and I’m going to stick to it!

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        • YES!!! That is the thing. Each of us has a journey, no matter who our teacher was for a time.

          Thank you for your comment!

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    • I found that her teachings about angels made me feel not alone and supported. The fact that she is selling her animal ranch is like the final straw to her abandoning her followers.

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      • Yeah! I found that to be really odd. You’d think that someone with her amassed wealth wouldn’t have to sacrifice what seemed to be so important to her…

        And I agree with the “not feeling alone” from the angelic teachings. It had the same effect on me.

        Thanks for commenting, Tina!

        Kind regards,
        Sue

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  2. Hi Sue, Doreen didn’t denounce Tarot back in April, only the Ascended Masters. And she never used the word ‘denounce’ then or in the infamous Maui TV interview. The thing is, you don’t have to use the word denounce to denounce something. Do watch the video for yourself (https://youtu.be/0e8QYAWgJMo) and you’ll see what I mean. She denounces Tarot, mediumship and any form of predictive reading in this video. She also claims that the reason she hasn’t pulled all the works she no longer believe in is that she feels responsible for Hay House employees, which is funny considering how she claims to only serve God and not Mammon now – surely God would look after those employees too! I think it is very important to separate out the spiritual side of things, which you covered here (yes, it’s her biz) from the actual BIZ side of things where so many have paid hundreds if not thousands of dollars to get certified by her and now find it difficult to do what they planned which is to build a business around those certifications. Kinda difficult now for those who feel their teacher has lost credibility. This obivously makes the certificates feel worth LESS if not entirely worthless. To me they do feel worthless. I could have learned the same subjects just more in-depth without having to pay out of my ass. I did ask Hay House for a refund for the AI course… They declined, first citing Doreen Virtue’s blatant lie (see her latest newsletter or her own FB page) that she has never denounced any of her teachings. I sent the video link to them, letting them know that I felt it was even more embarrassing to be certified by her now that she is a public liar. They then said that it was too late because any refunds had to be made within 60 days of the purchase. HH is a highly immoral organisation, as is DV a highly immoral individual. Do you think it is a coincident that she issued these statements AFTER the 60 days were up for most of the people for this course which they pushed hard back in the spring? Of course not. I let HH know how I feel about it and I hope many others do too. Apropos everything that has happened, I wrote the following on my FB page this morning:

    If you, for any reason, are not happy with a service, course or product you have purchased from a business or organisation, you have certain rights. Don’t fall for the pressure from the holier than thou crowd that just because you are spiritual and you bought said item from a ‘spiritual’ business, you have no right other than to be grateful and move on. If you feel let down, write and complain – it’s your God-given right to do so!

    Love,
    Lisa

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    • I do agree that her courses were WAY overpriced and am sorry that I made the mistake of saying she said “denounced” when she didn’t, but her words had the same effect.

      I guess, to me, the classes she taught, when she was into things like fairies, tarot, etc. don’t lose their value because the teacher decided to move in a different direction. I’ve always felt that Radleigh was the “tarot guy” on the team, but he teamed up with Doreen because of her name and audience (and, of course, angels).

      Sorry that you feel that you were robbed by HH and DV. 🙁 I totally understand your viewpoint and where you are coming from.

      Love,
      Sue

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  3. Oh, I totally used the word ‘denounced’ myself after watching her Maui TV interview video – that is what she did. I just wouldn’t quote her as saying ‘I denounce…’ The classes she taught, as well as the books she put out there, were all of quite low quality compared to what I have seen on offer by others who charge a lot less to teach… More fool me for going back to her and HH for more… I feel a bit like I was under some kind of spell. Waking up is good. Love, Lisa

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    • I agree about the cost, Lisa! I was SHOCKED to see what the $$ was for the AI course – so I did a lot of the work on my own and with various different resources (yours included) and teachers.

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  4. To be clear Sue was referencing the original April video in which she apparently did directly denounce some of her previous work. The interview video and current explanatory video on Doreen’s Youtube channel are “gentler”.

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    • 😀 Yep! Thank you!

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  5. Is Doreen Virtue truly connected, because if you have had a truly spiritual experience such as a loved one materialising in front of you or a loved one talking to you very clearly from the spirit world, then this experience would blow you away and live with you for the rest of your life. She cannot have had such an experience because if she had then this would have uplifted her for the rest of her life.
    How hypocritical then to denounce mediumship. If god gave man the ability to connect the two worlds and bring such joy, then how on earth can that be wrong. I think she casts a large shadow over spiritual practise and people need to question(because it’s imperatively healthy to do so) what she was all about in the first place.

    Has she had a nervous breakdown, has self guilt finally caught up with her, has she run before she was outed etc etc. Who knows.

    She has mislead a lot of people and I think she needs to be a lot more accountable.

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    • “How hypocritical then to denounce mediumship. If god gave man the ability to connect the two worlds and bring such joy, then how on earth can that be wrong.”

      I love this! Especially connecting the two world to bring joy.

      We have to just allow her to be in her place and us in ours. I also think she has to be accountable and really think about what she says before she says it. Otherwise, her path is hers.

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    • Eve, I have to agree with you on everything you said in your response about Doreen. I listened to Doreen’s video explaining her conversion and feel she is acting very “spacey,” and doesn’t appear to be grounded, i.e., like she is floating in an altered state. This concerns me because I wonder if she is taking any medication, which may contribute to the appearance of this altered state. Something certainly has shifted in her voice and in her mannerisms, but I wish her well.

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    • You asked “has she had a nervous breakdown?” I think the answer is much simpler than that, she met and married a man called Michael, who is obviously a devout Christian and ever since she has been with him, her videos have been more and more about Christianity.
      I think Michael has had a huge impact and influence in her life, almost to the point that he is the controlling factor in whatever decisions she makes!
      Very disappointing to see this happen to a woman I always thought was someone who “empowered” others!
      Perhaps I’m way off base here, but I do think Michael is a Svengali type person, who has taken over Doreen Virtue’s life and is the one behind the conversion to Christianity and the subsequent decisions she has made.
      Some may see this as a good thing, but personally, I am disappointed at anything which disempowers a woman’s thoughts, actions and decisions.

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      • I totally agree with you. I saw Doreen Virtue a few years ago at a Hay House conference with her husband and I felt his energy was not good at all. I got a bad feeling about him. I think he probably has influenced her and it seems she was more susceptible to it after Trump was elected because she became very fearful, instead of trusting that all would be well as she has taught others for so many years. Her parents also moved in with her and they might be influencing her also.

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        • Glad you agree – I thought perhaps it was just me! I’m also worried about how tired and older she looks these days – she was always so well groomed, glowing skin and almost glamorous looking, I’ve noticed lately she looks tired and worn out and does seem to be bothering with her makeup etc – we are all getting older but I always thought Doreen had an inner glowing light shining from within – is it my imagination or has she lost that “glow”?

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          • It could be a change of products! Or perhaps she is tired. It’s really OK to back up off of the lime light and to say enough is enough.

            Ultimately, we’ll have to see how this rolls out.

            Kind regards,
            Sue

      • I agree as well. When he first starting to appear more on her weekly videos, the empath in me kicked up. I just felt something very off and controlling. I watched the original video (that’s been removed from the Internet). For me, her statements were jaw-dropping and very discouraging. I have her ascended masters book. Just started reading it but cannot read the entire Introduction because she said the book was divinely inspired. I’m struggling with believing anything she’s done or will do is truly divinely inspired. Sorry if that’s judgmental.

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      • I still love Doreen and have felt the same way as you regarding the husband. I really felt he had something yo do with that. At firsy his appearance on the show was nice but then it seemed that he was taking a lot of space and she started to change. I guess it is that type of woman who let go of everything blindly for a man. Her husband seems to really overpower her. It s sad. I still watch her videos. It doesn’t feel the same though and awkward at times.

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  6. It saddens me how this all went down. First of all I loved Doreen for her positive spiritual messages with the Angels. I learned a lot from her and pretty much looked up to her. And now I feel like WTF. I don’t mean that in a bad way, but I’m a bit disappointed in how it all went down. Perhaps she should’ve kept that information personal or to herself, instead of somewhat misleading so many people. I know it wasn’t her intent to do so, and I respect each person’s path, but in the end it hurt a lot of us in some ways. I also agree with a previous post where I sensed there was a lot of darkness surfacing and getting in the way of some of our paths, so be wary dear one as I am sure we will all be tested in some way, shape or form. I still believe in Angels, and Angel Readings as I do them and I help many people with my messages. It just hurts to loose someone u love along the way. And unfortunately religion has a way of separating people and being negative and judgemental a lot of times. Not into that.

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    • Hi Karina,

      I totally understand what you mean about religion being a dividing force in many instances, and that was part of what saddened me about the negativity toward the Ascended Masters and deities from other religions. Also, what you said about her hurting a lot of people – perhaps unintentionally, but still.

      We all face darkness and negativity – we can only strive to learn from it and transform it.

      Kind regards,
      Sue

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  7. well said Sue, couldnt agree more x

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    • Thanks, Jackie!

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  8. I am not a member of the tarot community and don’t believe in worshipping anything. But I do have several of her decks and followed her on Facebook. I saw her speak at an Expo 20 years ago. I enjoyed her Facebook posts and pulling a card now and then from the decks for a positive perspective…to get insight or wisdom about something happening in my life. We need positive, especially in these times when their is so much anger and darkness. I have felt startled and confused by what she has done. When I saw her post on Facebook to repent and follow Jesus…it was the language of judgment, narrowness, and cruelty that has been used by so many to justify hate and oppressing others. At a time when there is so much darkness, I feel like another light has gone out in the world. We need lights that point to kindness, hope and bringing love to the world. We don’t need judgmental orders to repent and follow a narrow religion guided by a book compiled from rumors and myths about a time when slavery and ownership of women was the norm. Doreen choosing this path is just as baffling to me as America electing this president. Where has the light gone?

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    • The light is still there, but it has shifted. We have to make sure that it doesn’t go out.

      Blessings,
      Sue

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  9. I bought her books and resonated with her angel work which started years back. Although it was a bit of a shock to hear about such a drastic conversion to a more fundamentalist belief system that clashes with the spiritual community, I was actually turned off to her using her conversion as a public platform to denounce others. When you start preaching to your former audience that they are now evil, surrounding themselves with demons disguised as angels, and need to find a church because it’s mandatory – that is NOT about a personal journey anymore. You are dictating the journey for others using fear|control doctrine. By all means, Doreen should follow whatever her heart leads to if it is sincere. Unfortunately, I do doubt the integrity here and feel there is insincerity in this. Yes, I think the money is lilely a big part of it, cornering a new Christian demographic, but I think there are darker ties to the Elite Establishment with this. Her shift almost appears orchestrated to cause deliberate confusion & chaos amongst the spiritual masses not bound to controlled religion. I do question now if Doreen was a fraud and if I ever really knew her. Sorry, for me, there are just some red flags.

    Since she has chosen to remain a public figure with this change of heart, she will receive both criticism and praise. Either way, I feel people are allowed to express how they feel.

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    • “I was actually turned off to her using her conversion as a public platform to denounce others. When you start preaching to your former audience that they are now evil, surrounding themselves with demons disguised as angels, and need to find a church because it’s mandatory – that is NOT about a personal journey anymore. You are dictating the journey for others using fear|control doctrine.”

      Excellent point, Heather. It wasn’t about her as an individual any longer when she denounced others.

      Something to definitely consider.

      Kind regards,
      Sue

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    • Thank you. Well put.

      I am still confused by her “conversion” and your post sums it up nicely.

      I think she has done something which in her own mind bothera her, and she needs the Get Out of Hell FREE CARD (personal hell in my opinion).

      What better way to skip over doing an inventory of your own actions than to jump into born again religion?

      Also, her fifth husband encouraged her to feel better by turning born again style Jesus.

      OR…she is feeling the “hell”ness of all the political drift going on.

      OR…she can’t reliably say now that we have to protect our vibe by not.listening to the news. I am a fan of Archangel Michael. Paying attention and protecting the innocent resonates with me. So yeah, I follow the current politics so I can be part of the healing. Whitewashing trouble doesn’t magically make it go away. Being aware and acting on it does.

      Just some thoughts…

      For.some reason, my learning of Doreen’s conversion has bothered me since I found out just two days ago.

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      • Hi Mary,

        Yes. It is hard for many of us to fully sort out why she made the decisions she has. Of course, it could definitely be something that she feels she needs that “get out of hell free card” for – we’ll likely never know.

        I actually feel that her pivot toward a born-again Christian stance is kind of a portrait of what is going on in the news. She had been more inclusive and open to others – now she has shut that down and denounced other deities (which, to me is equal to denouncing other faiths). We need more inclusiveness now, not more division and judgment, IMHO.

        Thanks for your response!

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  10. If you’re interested here’s a link to a public post featuring the April video. Apparently someone, I’m sure one of many, downloaded it from YouTube before it was deleted. Not quite as harsh as I thought it would be from other’s comments. So yes, she’s only directly renouncing the Ascended Masters in this one. I actually find her current video a more direct disavowal of psychic practices.

    https://www.facebook.com/lisa.frideborg.eddy

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    • Thank you for sharing, Jean! I was so curious about what she had said in the original.

      Kind regards,
      Sue

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  11. Praise the Lord. I am so happy that Doreen has found Jesus.
    17 years ago I had an angel experience which led me to one of Doreen’s books at the library. The book, coupled with my Christian faith, helped me to understand what had happened to me. I admire her and wish her all the success in her ministry. God works in mysterious ways.

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    • Glad that you have found your path, Claudette!

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  12. I agree with you, her words on the video, which is back on YouTube, were harsh. I went through the born-again phase with a best friend. She and her husband turned away from everything to follow their path. My friend came around, still has faith but is more centered. Doreen’s turn was complete and although it’s her path, it left me personally very stunned. I have my path, I do not rely on others except for some guidance. I wish her the best. She announced yesterday they are leaving Hawaii…so it’s almost like they are going off-grid.

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    • Hi SueEllen,

      Wow! I didn’t realize they were leaving Hawaii, too. I wonder what is going on in the background… Interesting.

      Kind regards,
      Sue

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  13. Doreen has now purged her YouTube channel of all of her past weekly angel message videos and meditations. Makes sense with her new focus I guess she would eventually have to make a clean break with where she’d been to have any chance of being taken seriously by the Christian community. There are a lot of people there already that are very wary of her. I’m sure this will be another huge shock to her core followers, it’s all gone.

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    • WOW! I hadn’t heard that, Jean. I am kind of surprised. Dang.

      Have a fabulous day!

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  14. Like many others I was surprised about Doreen’s change of direction. After considering her decision, I feel that maybe like me, she has come home to the truth of her own being, after a long journey of discovery.

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    • Hi Josephine,

      As you said, it is her own truth and she has had a long journey. Let’s see where it leads!

      Kind regards,
      Sue

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  15. Doreen Virtue –Another New Age adherent bytes the dust…
    NOT
    The New Age actually began with Jesus Christ upending the old order.
    Prior, reincarnation was likely the only the way things worked until Jesus gave an alternative ….
    “What must I do to be saved,” asked the jailer, who was tasked with imprisoning Paul and his companion, Silas. But the latter two later did not escape when an earthquake unexpectedly broke down the walls of the prison .
    “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ,” was the answer, ” and you will be saved…” (Acts 16:25-31)

    Indeed, I wonder how a 21st New Age adherent might answer such a question.

    While it is true many Christians have more zeal than common sense, and hypocrites populate their ranks, and perhaps are more visible than hypocrites elsewhere because Christianity does affirm high standards; there are nevertheless many good examples of Christians and ultimately, there is no fault one can find with Jesus except for his admonitions stating he was THE WAY. This does cause problems in the sense that persons with multi-path beliefs to God will reject that view. However, on might ask about all these other masters various New Age movements espouse that have equal or greater footing than Jesus… how is that decided, and how do we know the truth of this is to be trusted??

    The New Testament is possibly the most notable all ancient writing in terms of the number of manuscripts, the time of writing in relation to the time of events described, and the completeness of the text. There are few other works of antiquity has been so accurately transmitted. Jesus methodically proves his credibility by miracles punctuating his teachings culminating in the Resurrection.

    And with great difficulty some of the audience believed. It was not until the Resurrection and release of the Holy Spirit that the new Jesus movement actually began to grow, adding 10,000 persons in 5 weeks. It was this simplicity and power of this Salvation message that eventually far outpaced its mother, Judaism, toppling the numerous well established religions of Rome and, allowing it to reach into the 21st century and capture the heart of Doreen Virtue.

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    • Hi Michael,

      I find your response to be interesting! Of course, I respect the fact that everyone has their own opinions about the Bible and religious texts, especially when applying them to their own lives.

      With regards to other religious figures, Ascended Masters, etc., they have roots in many cases that are just as old or older than Christianity.

      To each his own…

      Kind regards,
      Sue

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      • Thank you for your reply Sue!
        As to each their own, true…
        Yes to unpack that thought further …

        Various advice and practices from other religions can be universally useful (this is never doubted).
        If the goal is Heaven (or equivalent) and eternal life; which of the known Masters has provided the most historical and anecdotal evidence for the greatest likelihood of that happening?

        Also, how do we know that those historical Ascended Masters are correctly represented by the person channeling or otherwise receiving alleged message(s) from them?

        As an example, Aimee Semple McPherson, (claimed as Ascended Master Magda), became much publicized as a successful faith healer with tens of thousands of people coming to her for that purpose in each of her meetings in the early 1920’s . As more and more news archives come online, articles about this can be read online and quite interesting;… describing skeptical, astonished reporters to writing about healings that were occurring faster than they could write them down. McPherson gave all credit to Jesus Christ, not some other celestial personage. It is very difficult to find similar well documented miracle evidence, which gives credibility to the seer, and therefore their claims, outside of Christianity.

        Another is Fatima 1917, a pre-predicted miracle event where 70,000 persons of diverse backgrounds (but mostly Catholic) claimed they saw, among other things, the sun dance in the sky, the Holy Family and other phenomena. Even skeptics who expected a big bust at the site reported seeing the unusual at the appointed hour with one of them writing of it in his newspaper. Messages given to the seers there(three children ) by Mother Mary, in essence attest to the sovereignty of Jesus Christ.

        Is there any highly publicized miracle events or promoting seers on the scale of Fatima 1917 or Aimee Semple McPherson that is giving credence to St Germain and his Violet Flame (or anyone else) for example?

        BTW, if understand both the Cross and the Violet Flame correctly, the latter’s function has already been provided for by Jesus’ sin atonement on the Cross and confession of sins via prayer.

        Reply
        • Hi Michael,

          Thanks for your comment. I think you might be missing the point of what bothers me, though: inclusion and acceptance.

          The decks that Doreen turned her back on didn’t only include New Age Ascended Masters, but a variety of different entities belonging to different religions.

          With what is going on in the world today, I think it is important to respect the beliefs of others and not deem anyone outside of Christianity to be worshipping false gods. To use your own words, “However, on might ask about (Christianity)… how is that decided, and how do we know the truth of this is to be trusted??

          The Bible, as you know, was written by a variety of different people both before the time of Christ, during his lifetime, and afterward. There are HUGE parts missing, including the Gospel According to Mary Magdelene.

          To denounce other deities is, in my opinion, just not right.

          Everyone is allowed their own opinion and beliefs.

          I know that doesn’t answer your question about recorded modern miracles, but I feel that might be beside the point.

          Kind regards,
          Sue

          Reply
  16. I felt Doreen was becoming more fear based in her videos at least since early 2016. A lot of people have become that way in these shifting times. Spiritual people are not immune.

    I have been helped by her angel channelings and cards. They helped me overcome a lot of fear and drama, and be more love based. When she displayed a new perspective that is more aligned with traditional religion, it felt odd to me. Yet I had an open mind. But it doesn’t seem fresh, it feels like Sunday School Jesus. But I can imagine that is comfortable for a lot of people. It just feels stale and restrictive to me rather than empowering.

    I don’t know anything about her current husband, but I have long felt that she had issues with males and gave away her personal power to the men in her life. So it wouldn’t be surprising if that was happening again. I did feel like she was being pressured to conform to church doctrine, either from a person or the church she is attending. I came from a fundamentalist background and her new way of talking and dressing are very familiar. Religion mistakes uniformity for unity.

    Reply
  17. Thank you for your reply Sue!!!
    (putting this as another “main post” since the formatting of the replies is getting too narrow..)
    I understand that your main concern is INCLUSION. Not sure how that might be adequately addressed since the God of the Bible seems to be exclusive with that first of the Ten Commandments. Intriguingly, Jesus’ exclusiveness was limited to him announcing he was Way, otherwise it was love thy neighbors, enemies; and the Gospel, first given to the Jews, and opened to all who would accept— which seems pretty inclusive.

    Yes, other texts are interesting such as the Gospel of Mary (Magdalene). Significant parts of “Mary” are missing though and it did not seem to be in wide informal circulation as the other Gospels before their integration into the Bible The latest estimated date of any of the current books in the Bible is 95- 120AD. Most scholars place “Mary” somewhere in 120 to 180AD and documents as close to the living witnesses of Jesus as possible were wanted for the Bible. The main message of “Mary” is in regards to women leadership in the church and disagreement about esoteric revelation which is satisfactorily addressed in the New Testament and subsequent church experience .

    My main point is to explain the lack of objective verifiability surrounding the various celestial personages as claimed by their respective modern New Age seers. One of Elizabeth Claire Prophet’s daughters asked her why she was not doing miracles. Doing them would be a public display of her actual empowerment from God

    The modern miracles as attested to by news reporters (as described in my previous post) are a type of objective verifiability that attest to the credibility of the seer to the cosmic being they purport to represent. If the theology is to be changed, why not support it with a publicly displayed miracle that would excite the news media? Currently; such miracles are most sensationalized in the context of traditional Christianity, both Catholic and Protestant.

    Reply
    • Interestingly enough, Michael, even worshipping Jesus, himself, could be considered to be worshipping a god before God, you know? Just because a lot of people say that HE is GOD doesn’t mean that he is.

      Also, I don’t limit my quest for connection to The Source/Universe/God(dess) to the Bible. I don’t feel that it is complete and it contains a lot of “interesting” advice and guidance that I just don’t believe in.

      And why should anyone gear their religious/theological experience toward the media and reporters? Can’t connection be a quiet, internal experience? Does it need to be displayed for all to see and sensationalize?

      There are people in this day and age who are performing miracles – on medical machinery and in the view of the public. These things are being documented. It could be that they are not being given their “15 minutes of fame” because of repression.

      Personally, I am one who would like to see much more scientific study of energy healing and work in modern times. There are people who are performing miracles. Perhaps some people are overlooking modern miracles because they are done in the name of Jesus instead of in the name of the person doing the miracle – or because they are performed by people who aren’t Christian. Something to ponder.

      Kind regards,
      Sue

      Reply
  18. I am french so sorry for my bad english. I discovered Doreen in 2010 and this change all my life. His oracle cards, books and so on, are my prefered. Not my guru cause I am very independant. I have my own Gods and Godnesses and it’s good! I loved her book about archangels and Ascensionned masters. I keep all these books, it’s not because she became christian than I can change my feeling about all her work. I stay the same. Her choice is her choice, however I don’t like christianity. For me, it’s like a virus…I liked her page on facebook during a long time, some years, but the day I see she put Jésus everywhere, I stop to follow her. Her way is not mine, but I keep her books. It’s just a pity for her….For me, I don’t change about her books, her oracle cards. I love them, and especially these about goodnesses! Good way for her 🙂

    Reply
  19. there is NO being on earth that is a spiritual teacher or “guru” Every Being is ALREADY spiritual, divine immortal and Free. and every being also already knows their path to follow. we are NOT here to follow ANYONE !!!!!!!! there is NO outer authority that has more power than I in my life. And if everyone believed that, we would NOT react to doreen virtue’s “alleged” conversion. I do NOT and never will trust anyone who suddenly changes path in their lives and then condemns what there were previously teaching… this only reveals that this so called “teacher” is NOT REAL. doreen virtue is a FRAUD and she is now attempting to shove christian beliefs down everyone’s throats… there are enough “christians” doing that already… we dont need more !!!!!!!!!! she is simply revealing her TOTAL lack of TRUE spiritual awareness by condemning what she herself taught !!!!!!! she is NOT ANY type of spiritual teach or guide. she is NOT real in her own life and she is imposing HER own beliefs onto other people and if those people are stupid enough to listen to her, then they will also lose their way.

    Reply
  20. Oh boy what do I think I t feels like a real betrayal of sorts but then I think everything happens for a reason and I try to see to the Higher design in it all and have come up with two things
    One it is a heavy burden to take on a guru status such as Doreen had amongst the new age community and one who is born up to great heights as a guru has a long way to fall I think if Doreen found a way to relinquish her guru status and assume an autonomous path which saw her freed of the responsibilities of a guru and free to chart her own personal and private course once more then that might be a wise and freeing thing for her and it throws the responsibility back on the individual to forge their own connections with Source and the angels …..and to define their own journeys which is a wise thing
    However I don’t really appreciate the way in which it was done and it seems like such a retro step
    I dont like the fact that apparently she renounced the Ascended Master packs when Christ himself is one of the ascended masters Those of us who have done the research know that the current version of the bible was a smorgasbord of accounts thrown together for the purposes of social control and political gain the time of Constantinople Surely Doreen of all people knows this
    Also I loath and detest that Hay House has been cashing in on Doreens conversion being quick to release’ Mornings with the Lord” That crass commercialism just leaves me cold
    Also just prior to Doreens conversion I wanted to help my mum who was aligned to some very conservative church views and brought her a pack of Doreen Virtue angel tarot cards in the hope it might offer her a more expansive loving and intuitive view of the Universe Now I have to turn around and tell my mum that Doreen has done a turn around ……..its a bit awkward andconfusing ………
    In closing I think it is a prime example of the fact of us all having ultimate free will in matters .and that blindly following any guru is really not a good idea but rather to honour own our connection and our own intuitive connection with the Divine and the Angels because whether Doreen still vouches for them or not its my safe guess they are still there for us to guide and comfort us every bit as they were before Doreens conversion

    Wendy B

    Reply
    • Hi Wendy,

      “Those of us who have done the research know that the current version of the bible was a smorgasbord of accounts thrown together for the purposes of social control and political gain the time of Constantinople.” Exactly.

      The Bible isn’t the only religious book out there, and Christianity isn’t the only religion or way of connecting with God. I’m really sad that exclusion is the way forward for HH and also for Doreen Virtue. Especially when the world needs understanding and inclusion.

      Kind regards,
      Sue

      Reply
  21. I believe by this act which I know seems like high treason to some Doreen Virtue has not only relieved herself of the ownerous responsibilities of guruship and asserted her right as a sovereign free will being to believe what she likes but she has also squarely put the responsibility back on the individual to seek out and strengthen and honour their own connection with Source and the angels and the ascended masters .I am sure they wont stop acting to guide and comfort us just because Doreen has done a bit of a turn around
    what I hate though is how Hay House has immediately cashed in on Doreens conversion by putting out a book of Christ centres devotional scriptures This brazen and crass commercialism makes me very cynical

    Reply
    • Yep. I agree that commercializing her conversion is quite something. I also agree that people have to honor their own connections to Source without needing a go-between or guru.

      Kind regards,
      Sue

      Reply
  22. It’s all about the money and Doreen is remaking her brand to tap into another market. This has nothing to do with true spirituality.

    Reply
  23. Religion is ‘big business’ and I’m not judging that (Lord help me if I am!). She helped me many years ago with her angel messages and got me in touch with Archangel Michael who has been my guiding light ever since. I act as a messenger of his now and I absolutely adore the work I do and the messages that come through me are profound and often bring me to tears of joy love and gratitude. I own her Archangel deck and recently a friend sent me the AA Michael deck which I love, but I’ve always added my own intuitively received message with each card because I feel the angels have more to say sometimes and the card just acts as a guideline. Strange enough I’ve never felt guided to do any of Doreen’s courses, preferring to follow my own inner Light. Michael has always guided me to my own inner Light and this has been all we do, and basically have done over the past 6 years, is lead people back into their hearts – the heart of Love – he calls it. I love Jesus, and all the Ascended Masters, and I don’t believe there is anything wrong with that. Recently Michael guided me to read Aurelia Louise Jones’ book called The Seven Sacred Flames and I feel overwhelming love coming through from the Ascended Masters and their teachings. As Michael says, practice discernment always. Always your truth lies within you, is what he’s been drumming into me ever since we began our service work together. I think Doreen did a lot of good helping people get in touch with their angels, but perhaps it is time for LightWorkers now to look within themselves, to their own inner guidance on what resonates as their truth, and not someone elses. The same can be said of the president of the USA – he is stirring up old nonsense (meaning it makes no sense) that will wake people up and that is his purpose now. Maybe Doreen is doing the same thing for LightWorkers, albeit unbeknown to her. Look within yourself and to no one else. Your heart knows its truth. As Michael says, there is purpose in all things 🙂 Love and blessings ♥

    Reply
    • Hi Deborah,

      “As Michael says, practice discernment always. Always your truth lies within you” – YES!!!

      It’s wonderful to see that you are taking what fits for you and understand that it is YOUR journey.

      Blessings!
      Sue

      Reply
  24. Hi! Thank you for your post! I really like the way you express the feelings and thoughts of many of us! 8 years ago, I created my own fb page where I shared many nice things just for my own pleasure. There were articles, images and videos helping me very much to heal my broken heart that time. I was also sharing a lot of things written and said by Doreen Virtue. I also started to translate her weekly readings into our language and post them on my page. Very soon the number of people following my page started to grow rapidly! We all loved her teachings so much! It was like having a “friend out there” who is always here for us and helps us to not get lost in a world where so much darkness appears every day.

    I have to admit, about a year or maybe two years ago, the translations of her readings started to be less and less in accordance with my true feelings. I was doing them just because our people wanted them anyway. Yes, she was still giving us many good advices and guidance, but there was more and more “religion” in it and I didn’t like it at all. It was all about “the God up there” and “us down here” like we were divided from one another. Those “big words” about the “Great Creator” always sounded so alien to me. I always felt the true “god” as LOVE itself – since only love is really in ALL of us. No God is common to us all, but love is. And I believe that LOVE is the only true God and it doesn’t need any “wise book” to spread between people. Everyone is naturally led towards love, even the atheists.

    I was raised in a christian family and this religion had a terrible impact on me – I’ve been living my whole life with guilty feelings, bad feelings about liking material pleasure etc. It was Doreen herself who helped me to get out of this! I will forever be grateful for her books and teachings which helped me to free myself from christian judgmental world! It really hurts me that she returned to this – even though she said her actual church is not judgemental and accepts everyone (in the video interview). I know, not all Christians are judgemental. I have friends who are Christians and are so open and free just like all the others and I never had any problem with them because of our beliefs. But since I’ve seen Doreen being guided mainly by that old book written hundreds years ago and basically judging everybody who doesn’t follow Jesus and christian God, I am very heart-broken. She was such a light for all of us who were working on spreading love and peace in this world! She was connecting us all and leading us to love and light… But yes, I agree it is important to believe in OUR own path in the first place and to not be dependent on anybody else and his or her opinions. It is true that it is a great lesson for all of us – if we stay true to ourselves in spite of the pressure of other people’s opinions or let another person to change us just because he or she changes.

    When she publicly spoke on her facebook page in September and said she stopped doing the readings and started to make christian videos reading the Bible, I felt a huge grief that day. But also that day when I was so shocked, I felt the presence of my angels SO deeply like never before! I TRULY felt their love and peace! This made me feel good about everything again because I knew that even though I didn’t like the change, it helped me to connect with them by myself. I stopped relying on her. It also showed me and many others how dependent we became on what she was doing and how much we let other people (who we adore) to influence our own thinking and feeling. Now we are “forced” to find our own way and listen to our own inner guidance which truly is a blessing.

    Of course, I totally respect anybody’s right to choose their path. I have no problem with letting Doreen go her own direction and I do not take it personally. But I won’t let anyone (including her) to push me into another belief than is true to me, especially by threatening by “hell” or rejecting pagans, witches etc.! I love my path and it brings a great joy and love to me and all the people in my world, so there’s no point in changing it! I have many pagans and witches as friends (I am also one of them!) and they are much more loving and kind than any Christian with the “right” belief. And LOVE is all that matters to me. Not GOD.

    Thanks to Doreen’s old teaching, I have about 60 000 followers on my page today. All of them are beautiful, loving and sensitive people, always prepared to help one another, spreading light and trying to find new ways and solutions for problems in the world. It’s a beautiful community of lightworkers and nobody can say it’s wrong in any way. I am going to continue in this work no matter what Doreen or anybody else says now. I left her page and wish her well. I refuse to follow any fear-based and/or rejective belief. I refuse to spread fear and division. I don’t know why did this happen and it is not my business so I let it go and focus on my path.

    I would love to encourage all the people who are hurting by this change to not question themselves and to continue spreading light and love in the world by the way THEY feel as the right one. We can do it! Blessings to you all! <3

    Reply
    • Dear Magdalena,

      I love some points you made: LOVE is the connection – the source – perhaps even God. It is the thing that binds us all together and we don’t need any book to lead us to judge those who aren’t like us.

      And really, as you said, we can continue spreading light and love in our own ways.

      Blessings,
      Sue

      Reply

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